CT03911

I get to rebalance my wheels for 6th time this season. I've posted before on this and don't want to rehash too much, looking for new ideas and feedback. Just to bring everyone up to speed......

I have Volk TE37's. They came balanced from Tire Rack and those came off. So did the new weights a race shop put on. The third set we added metal duct tape over them, they still came off. I found out they were NAPA sourced. Got Wurth sourced weights from TRG with metal tape, off they came. The fifth time was because I used a Goodyear shop one weekend in a time pinch to replace lost weights. Whatever weights they had I covered with metal duct tape and off they came too.

I did an extensive internet search and found these guys http://www.perfectequipment.com/index.php selling high temp weights with the 3M black acrylic adhesive most of you recommended. I covered those weights with a special high temp duct tape sourced from http://www.racerstape.com/index.html

These weights have now come off too. This is beyond rediculous. Six times?

The wheels are cleaned immaculately with car soap and water and then CRC chlorine free brake cleaner before appying the weights. They are of course quite dry before putting the weights on. Every race team I've talked to does this. They are allowed to set up for days before running them.

The Volk wheel finish or how Volks transmit heat down the five spokes to the rim is now one suspect. Also, I am running Pagid 19's up front and 14's in back. I have the RS brake cooling ducts. I am running 2:16's in black at Watkins Glenn so it's safe to say the car is generating some heat. I do not hammer the brakes. My Pagids have lasted over 20 track days and are only half gone so I actually believe that means I'm using them conservatively.

There must be someone else out there with this same setup that can give me feedback. Interestingly enough, every time the same thing happens. The weights on the OUTSIDE of each of the four wheels begins to slide to the INSIDE of the wheel irregardless of the track. They begin to pull the tape (actually three different types of tape so far) until they actually emerge from the tape and fly off.

I hope someone with my setup will respond on their experiance. I am going to call Volk and Racer Tape before rebalancing. I'm running out of options short of sanding the wheels and or using a sealant around the weights before taping them. Help please.

Rob in VA

I'm out of valid ideas, but here goes one. Maybe the rims are flexing under load?

Mike Mullins

Try cleaing with a solvent to remove any production residue before reattching.

I'd say it has some type of PTFE or mold release still on the wheel.

Mike M
02 986S
AS.GG.GG

Jim H.

It seems the only variables are the stiction of the glue to the rim, size of the weight, vibration, heat, and lateral forces applied to the weights. It's interesting that the weights migrate inwards. Are the Volk rims "flat" or are they tapered? If they are tapered towards the inner lip there will be some geometric forces that move the weight in that direction.

I agree that the stiction of the glue to the Volk finish has to be considered but I bet it is industry standard paint and clearcoat.

Good luck. I remember a while back that Larry Herman was working on titanium wheel weights, maybe they will work ;-).

Mike Mullins

I hear you, but he says "The wheels are cleaned immaculately with car soap and water and then CRC chlorine free brake cleaner before appying the weights. They are of course quite dry before putting the weights on. Every race team I've talked to does this. "

I usually clean stuff like were discussin with a Solvent like Enamel Reducer, or Lighter fluid, etc.

Soap and water, and Brake cleaner, might not be getting surface contaminets off the painted surface. I would agree after looking at their web site (Volk Wheels) they use standard looking application methods, which leaves me to wonder why the weights are moving.
I, like the poster, have done this a lot of times, I also quit using Racers or Fabric Duct Tape and have switced to Foil tape. Works very well, doesn't break down to the heat generated, and stays stuck til I remove it.

I'd try cleaning the spot again witha 3M Scoth brite and Solvent just enough to give the tape/and weight a spot to bite into.

JMO,

Rob in VA

I understand your frustration, but applying wheel weights should never be a complicated procedure...

AllanJ

If that happened to me I might break out my welder.

I like the scotch brite idea. Scuff up the spot a bit in case there's something funky going on with the coating on the wheel. Another thought is to use a sealant/adhesive of some sort to help seal the weight to the wheel. If you do this use the adhesive sparingly because you will be adding more weight to that one spot, making the wheel slightly out of balance. PL Premium construction adhesive will glue pretty much anything to anything. The "super glues" of the world weaken with heat so those are no good.

Good luck!

jrok

My guess is there's some chemical on the wheel that won't let the weights or the tape stick to it -- or something on the wheels is breaking down the adhesives chemically. I might forget the brake cleaner and the soap you're using and try the scotchbrite and water just for the sake of trying it.

My only other suggestion would be to try one of the 3M VHB tapes to hold them down with. This stuff is useful for other track applications as well.

VHB Tapes Home Page

Here is the Product Family Guide

Make sure you click on the "3M™ VHB™ Tapes Technical Data Page" link from the product family guide page which provides the peel, tensile and overlap sheer strength for the different families of tapes.

Best of luck man.

CT03911

Thanks for the input guys. I just ordered the cup cooling ducts from Austin at TRG. I have the RS ducts now but the cup ducts will cool this area more. I think I will change the cleaners, eliminate any trace of the soap for sure. Just go to CRC brake cleaner and 3M adhesive remover.

The wheels look nearly perfect and they are pretty nicely finished- that's one reason I chose them, so I would prefer not to scuff them up at all. I am seriously considering going to the CCW wheels because of the milled finish look. Those wheels, the cup ducts and the tape and weights I'm using should put this to bed.

I guess there is no one else out there running Volks with wheel weight issues?

sbda4@socal.rr.com

I have the Volk TE-37's (with titanium finish) on my 2004 GT3. I have the same issue with the wheel weights moving inward on the wheels, despite cleaning and foil tape. I believe heat is the biggest issue. With the PCCBs, there is not much mass to absorb the heat, so it flows down the large wheel spokes to the rim. I'm looking for a good fix as well. Thanks for sharing.

rodneyr

I have the Volk TE-37's and I purchased them from Tirerack. The wheel weights came off on my first track DE at Watkins Glen. I must say Tirerack did a poor job with the adhesive / tape on the weights. I had them re-balanced and have not had any issues of the weights moving or falling off. I have the RS brake ducts and Pagid RS19's all around.

Paul 996

You stated that you use "3M adhesive remover" you know what that stuff does to adhesives right? Make sure none of it is left on the area where the weight is going. It breaks down all glues, but that would be too obvious. There must be something going on with the surface finish of the wheel not letting tape adhere to it.

Rob in VA

It's part of the design. How do you think the VOLKs are so light, no wheel weights.

spare tire

Maybee Volk sends the wheels to China for lead based paint and lead
dust is breaking the adheasion. Try licking the wheels before sticking on the weights
and even if they slip, you wont care.

jcondon

I also had a problem with wheel weights sliding on my Volk TE37 wheels, even when they were taped down. The first photo shows a strip of six 1/4-oz weights that drifted inward from the outer edge (the edge with the spokes) of the wheel barrel; you can still see the "ghosts" of the original weight positions in the tape. I believe this problem is much worse for Volk TE37 wheels than for most other wheels because the TE37 barrels are strongly tapered near the outer edge. The inside diameter of my 18X10J wheel is 16 1/8 inches at the outer edge of the barrel and grows to 16 5/8 inches only 5/4 inches from the outer edge. Thus any centrifugal force pushing the weights radially outward has a component that also tries to slide the weights inward from the outer edge of the barrel.

This inward sliding force is remarkably strong. At 145 mph (top speed near the end of the back straight at VIR in my 996), the angular velocity of the wheels is about w = 200 radians per second, so the centrifugal acceleration of a wheel weight is w*w*r, about 200 * 200 * 0.2 meters = 8000 meters/s/s, or about 800 g's. With the TE37 outer barrel slope of about 0.2, the inward sliding acceleration can be up to 800 * 0.2 = 160 g's, so the six 1/4-oz weights were pushing inward along the barrel with a force of up to 15 pounds!

One solution would be to mount all wheel weights at least 1.5 inches from the outer edge of the barrel of a TE37. Another is to tape the weights in a way to resist the sliding force and to retain the weights even if they do slide inward an inch or two (second photo).