Just wondering.... Where is the GT3 series going?
10-29-2007, 11:50 PM
#76
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FWIW I just did my first track weekend in my 04 "3". I posted when I picked the car up 2 weeks ago that I didn't like the way it felt on my drive home from the dealer. It darted around on the road, it followed the ruts in the pavement, I nearly tore off the chin spoiler in the first mile of driving. I got the beast home and immediately ordered toe links, cup control arms, cup motor mounts, and a few other items. Got these done along with a new alignment, and a set of track wheels with MPSC's. So off to Watkins Glen in hopeful anticipation.
Bottom line is this car ROCKS. My prior vehicle was an 02 C4S and there is a huge difference in the way these 2 cars drive. The GT3 requires you to be on your game with quicker inputs. The 4S is like in slow motion compared to the GT3. The 3 is nimble and responsive. I need to learn so much to drive it well but I can tell skill will be rewarded by this car. I just began to slowly experiment with the limits so I really have no idea how it feels to be firmly on the edge. I was running around the track with an M3 and he had a lap timer. He said we were doing 2.18 laps and this was in 45 degree weather and intermittent rain and me leaving what felt like a very safe margin of error on the table. I always felt like I was beating on the 4S on track but the 3 seems as though it's in its element. The engine is happy, the whole car is happy at speed. I can't compare to the 7 GT3 but I can say this car is what I was hoping for. I sense it is a wonderful platform to learn on and just what I want from my Porsche.
Bottom line is this car ROCKS. My prior vehicle was an 02 C4S and there is a huge difference in the way these 2 cars drive. The GT3 requires you to be on your game with quicker inputs. The 4S is like in slow motion compared to the GT3. The 3 is nimble and responsive. I need to learn so much to drive it well but I can tell skill will be rewarded by this car. I just began to slowly experiment with the limits so I really have no idea how it feels to be firmly on the edge. I was running around the track with an M3 and he had a lap timer. He said we were doing 2.18 laps and this was in 45 degree weather and intermittent rain and me leaving what felt like a very safe margin of error on the table. I always felt like I was beating on the 4S on track but the 3 seems as though it's in its element. The engine is happy, the whole car is happy at speed. I can't compare to the 7 GT3 but I can say this car is what I was hoping for. I sense it is a wonderful platform to learn on and just what I want from my Porsche.
10-29-2007, 11:52 PM
#77
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I have been reading all your posts with great appreciation. My thanks to a great bunch of enthusiasts whose passion is second to none. I share that emotional relationship with this car and the longer I own it and the more I drive it I the more I become attached. And for every reason everyone else does. Wow, your responses reflect I'll bet only a portion of the "real" feelinngs if I may be allowed to read between the lines.
So where is the next "best" step for Porsche looks like it depends upon the pressures of the board room. "Do we continue to build more of the "litigous insulated" models or the "pure dirvers" optioned cars?"
I think I understand the problem. But is there really a "problem" or is it something fabricated because of those who always blame thier "F'ups" on someone else.
I just hope they don't one day come and confiscate my car because i doesn't have PSM or some other BS crap and I'll be happy. It looks like I may be keeping it that long! Damn what a car!
So where is the next "best" step for Porsche looks like it depends upon the pressures of the board room. "Do we continue to build more of the "litigous insulated" models or the "pure dirvers" optioned cars?"
I think I understand the problem. But is there really a "problem" or is it something fabricated because of those who always blame thier "F'ups" on someone else.
I just hope they don't one day come and confiscate my car because i doesn't have PSM or some other BS crap and I'll be happy. It looks like I may be keeping it that long! Damn what a car!
10-30-2007, 12:57 AM
#78
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FWIW I just did my first track weekend in my 04 "3". I posted when I picked the car up 2 weeks ago that I didn't like the way it felt on my drive home from the dealer. It darted around on the road, it followed the ruts in the pavement, I nearly tore off the chin spoiler in the first mile of driving.
The GT3 demands that you drive it. It needs your full attention at all times when you are in the driver's seat. You can't let things happen on their own. That is the way sports cars should be.
I feel lucky that I have the opportunity to own such a car. If they stop making such cars at least when I get old I can tell my grandkids how good I had it now.
10-30-2007, 01:02 AM
#79
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When I get depressed about the evolution of the GT3, I quickly realize that I have one hell of a car in the garage. I hope to drive this car for a very long time. It will be fun telling track stories to my grandkids!
-Blake
10-30-2007, 01:27 AM
#80
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I was on a plane last night, reading my latest issue (Oct) of Panorama and came across a section where customers of the 997 reported their likes/dislikes (called "Firsthand File"). I found the following comments interesting:
1) "Engine smell in the cockpit- I'm embarrassed when I have people in my $124,000 car (after TT&L) and you start to smell the engine coming from the back of the car while moving" - RM, Washington
2) "Other items I'd like: park-sensor visual indicators (ala Mercedes and the Cayenne)" - RM, Washington
3) "I would like to see the steering wheel move up to its limit as you turn off the engine and reposition itself when you start the car, like my BMW" - JC, Connecticut
4) "I'd like better audio system availability. I bought the optional Bose system but the Mark Levinson system in my wife's Lexus LS430 sounds a lot better with much better base" - TK, Maryland
This really drives home the point that the Porsche market has changed in the US over the past few decades. Bravo to Porsche for responding. The key issue here is the specialty cars - ala GT3 and GT3RS. For us "old school" enthusiasts, keeping the racing tradition for a street car is still optimal. I do not want Nav in my GT3 RS, and I don't want drive by wire or a sunroof in my GT3. Heck, I'd pay an extra $20-$30K to have those "options" deleted! Why can't Porsche still make a mean, lean, combi street/track machine for us? Now don't get me wrong - I am considering making a 997 my daily driver - but it is now just a car comparable to any other luxury car. Where is the magic?
Parktronic on a 911! What has the world come to?
-B
1) "Engine smell in the cockpit- I'm embarrassed when I have people in my $124,000 car (after TT&L) and you start to smell the engine coming from the back of the car while moving" - RM, Washington
2) "Other items I'd like: park-sensor visual indicators (ala Mercedes and the Cayenne)" - RM, Washington
3) "I would like to see the steering wheel move up to its limit as you turn off the engine and reposition itself when you start the car, like my BMW" - JC, Connecticut
4) "I'd like better audio system availability. I bought the optional Bose system but the Mark Levinson system in my wife's Lexus LS430 sounds a lot better with much better base" - TK, Maryland
This really drives home the point that the Porsche market has changed in the US over the past few decades. Bravo to Porsche for responding. The key issue here is the specialty cars - ala GT3 and GT3RS. For us "old school" enthusiasts, keeping the racing tradition for a street car is still optimal. I do not want Nav in my GT3 RS, and I don't want drive by wire or a sunroof in my GT3. Heck, I'd pay an extra $20-$30K to have those "options" deleted! Why can't Porsche still make a mean, lean, combi street/track machine for us? Now don't get me wrong - I am considering making a 997 my daily driver - but it is now just a car comparable to any other luxury car. Where is the magic?
Parktronic on a 911! What has the world come to?
-B
electronic str wheel that moves out of the way... now i see where we are headed.... we are doomed.
10-30-2007, 01:37 AM
#81
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We all love our 996 GT3 because we are purists. We are always trying to get more track days in but can never find enough events to attend. The downside is that we have given the car so much praise that non-purists want to own a GT3 so they can tell people they own one of the hottest cars on the market.
Porsche realized this when the 996 GT3 came to North America. A large number of owners complained about the noise and harsh ride. So Porsche being the marketing giant that it is diluted the GT3 name and has built a car for everyday people who, most likely, will never take it out for track days.
Do these comments really reflect what GT3 stands for? Not for me!
Porsche realized this when the 996 GT3 came to North America. A large number of owners complained about the noise and harsh ride. So Porsche being the marketing giant that it is diluted the GT3 name and has built a car for everyday people who, most likely, will never take it out for track days.
1) "Engine smell in the cockpit- I'm embarrassed when I have people in my $124,000 car (after TT&L) and you start to smell the engine coming from the back of the car while moving" - RM, Washington
2) "Other items I'd like: park-sensor visual indicators (ala Mercedes and the Cayenne)" - RM, Washington
3) "I would like to see the steering wheel move up to its limit as you turn off the engine and reposition itself when you start the car, like my BMW" - JC, Connecticut
4) "I'd like better audio system availability. I bought the optional Bose system but the Mark Levinson system in my wife's Lexus LS430 sounds a lot better with much better base" - TK, Maryland
2) "Other items I'd like: park-sensor visual indicators (ala Mercedes and the Cayenne)" - RM, Washington
3) "I would like to see the steering wheel move up to its limit as you turn off the engine and reposition itself when you start the car, like my BMW" - JC, Connecticut
4) "I'd like better audio system availability. I bought the optional Bose system but the Mark Levinson system in my wife's Lexus LS430 sounds a lot better with much better base" - TK, Maryland
10-30-2007, 03:26 PM
#82
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To get back to the original thread title, in essence, the GT3 series appears to be getting softer. It reminds me a lot of the M3 line of cars with the E30 M3 being the "Real M3". Everyone has seen how the E36 and E46 got faster/heavier/cushier/more electronically dependant, but less track oriented. That is why I went to Porsche, as after the E46, I could not see BMW building a more track oriented car. Now with the V8 E92 M3 out, it's great, but what I expect an M5 cruiser sedan to be, not what I thought the M3 should be.
This debate has been going on for years in the BMWCCA, and I now see Porsche going through the same thing. There appear to be so many similarities it's not even funny.
This debate has been going on for years in the BMWCCA, and I now see Porsche going through the same thing. There appear to be so many similarities it's not even funny.
10-30-2007, 04:51 PM
#83
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before being too critical of features in the GT3, remember, it is a German car, designed and (largely) developed in Germany for German conditions and rules.
This means that the cars are parked in very tight spaces (need parktronic, which is light anyway), navigation systems are really helpful, ABS saves lives, all drivers need a handsfree mobile phone option, comparatively few are regularly tracked, people who track a lot buy race cars as all modifications have to be approved by the safety inspectors, and these cars are often used on a daily basis with ever longer commute journeys.
To these rules add the US DOT rules, often driven by the sad reality that a lot of US drivers still don't fasten their seat belts.
It seems inevitable that cars are heavier, and more power makes them heavier too, bigger radiators, intercoolers, fuel tanks, drive shafts etc etc.
R+C
This means that the cars are parked in very tight spaces (need parktronic, which is light anyway), navigation systems are really helpful, ABS saves lives, all drivers need a handsfree mobile phone option, comparatively few are regularly tracked, people who track a lot buy race cars as all modifications have to be approved by the safety inspectors, and these cars are often used on a daily basis with ever longer commute journeys.
To these rules add the US DOT rules, often driven by the sad reality that a lot of US drivers still don't fasten their seat belts.
It seems inevitable that cars are heavier, and more power makes them heavier too, bigger radiators, intercoolers, fuel tanks, drive shafts etc etc.
R+C
10-30-2007, 05:09 PM
#84
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I posted when I picked the car up 2 weeks ago that I didn't like the way it felt on my drive home from the dealer. It darted around on the road, it followed the ruts in the pavement, I nearly tore off the chin spoiler in the first mile of driving.
When I test drove it for a very short slow drive on the street it felt completely undriveable as a street car.
I traded my old 6GT3 for my current 6RS because when I test-drove the RS, it made the GT3 feel stable in comparison. I totally love the darting, sniffing, tail-wagging RS. It only feels unstable. In fact it has never snapped on me, despite the fact that I drive it sideways at every opportunity. And it's my daily driver, so every day is a track day!
10-30-2007, 05:48 PM
#85
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See, Speedgeek, thats a cool comment. What you describe is what there is to love about the 6gt3. That's what we are all talking about. When the 6gt3 is aligned aggressively, set to low and hard, even us nancy girls experience the twitchyness that warns "pay attention, don't mess with me". But when even us nancy girls push such a gt3 hard, it shows wondrous depths of handling, a precise tool to be used with precision. And that is what we seek. That's what separates the people who merely drive a gt3 from those who DRIVE their gt3.