PURE

Hi everyone - fairly new to the forum, I would like to get some feedback on an unwelcomed new valvetrain noise I have been experiencing. The noise surfaced a couple of days ago when upon trying to start the engine, I was greeted by a horrificly rough grinding noise - as if the car had no oil. Granted with the dry sump, it is entirely possible that the filter was low/empty. At that point the engine ran rough. Being that the car just had a major service two weeks ago, and no idiot lights indicated low oil levels I found this to be a bit odd. To play it safe I added a bit more oil, and the valetrain noise seemed to diminish for the greater part. While the car does not seem to be down on power, the new noise remains. My track mechanic says there is probably not much to worry about as it could be jsut a bit of air between the valve and the seat do to the previously low oil level/pressure and thus should not hinder performance. I went to the dealer and they conveinently claim there is nothing particulalry strange about the noise - that all GT3's make that noise. Granted nmy Gt3 certainly did make that noise previously, and being that they had just performed a major servie and had alledgedly put in 180 euro of Mobile 1, I find their creditability to be compromised. Being that the car has roughly 50k km (about 35k miles) and it has never been overrevved (plus we all the GT3 rev limiter is soft in comparison to the engine's capabilities) I find it difficult to believe the car would have valetrain problems. Has anyone else experienced such a phenomonon? Am I just being paranoid? What are my options? If this is a potential problem - ie could cause loss of power or further damage - the only way to really tell, is to open the motor, right? A lil' help please?

Blacksport350

Are you sure that the noise while running was not present before and that you just have not noticed it?

It is not uncommon for a GT3 to sound like it is about to explode if it hasn't been started for a while (I have had it happen after sitting for 2-days). Slightly low oil is not an issue and could have caused what you are describing. It would have had to be VERY low for oil starvation to occur at idle.

Did they use the correct weight of oil? A different weight could change the sound of the valve train a bit.

PURE

Thanks for the reply ...I am certain the noise was'nt present before...being that my car is a MK1 club sport, I am quite accostomed to all the various mechanical clatter (lightweight flywheel etc) and the near explosion sound if the car has been sitting for a while...but this is a bit different - it is a an extra clatter which seems to be coming above all from the left bank. Also the car had been driven just a few hours prior so this sudden rutcus was really disconcerting. It is not quite the rat tat tat noise that a floated valve would make - but it is an annoyance nevertheless. Maybe there is a small part that has worked itself loose near the engine? The car's power seems ok - no discernable flat spots - and speeds in gear are accurate - but I am just concerend as I am about to ship her off to undergo some serious perfomance upgrades. The last thing I want to do is have a problem that is only worsened by further stressing the engine...

Blacksport350

Who is the car going to? Maybe you could have them check it out for you. From your explanation and last post, it sounds like a valve lifter issue to me.

PURE

I am sending the car to Manthey - who could of course take care of any problem a Porsche coould encounter known to man. The problem is that I was not going to bring it to them until the end of June - and thus I would potentially loose a month of summer driving on the coast That being said - better safe than sorry! I agree with your diagnosis -potetnially valve lifter problem. Neeldess to say I am not happy with the dealer who as I mentioned esarlier is claiming all is ok. I will have mathey or another super qualified expert look at it - and if a big repair bill looms in the near future - will try to confront them. Italian law allows me to file a grievance - but it will be a long drawn out fiasco to say the least!

Blacksport350

Excellent, Manthey will be able to get you all fixed up.

I can't say for sure, but your dealer may well not be to blame but you won't find out until you get in there and fix the problem. It could have simply been a coincidence that the problem popped up near your dealer visit. The car is not old and it does not have a ton of miles but it is old enough and has high enough miles to be in the range for a lifter issue.

You could try another oil change and see if it goes away.

One thing that I have noticed is that mobile one has been slipping in quality lately. I have personally run into more oil related issues with it recently (rapid deterioration and lifter noise).

fhp911

Do you get the noise whenever the motor is running, or only when you start it up?
If at startup, do you always get it, or only if it hasn't been run in a few days?

I ask because my gt3 makes awful noises for a few seconds upon startup if it hasn't been turned on in a few days. (I was so alarmed about this that I had my dealer check it out; they said these noises are normal upon startup if the car hasn't been driven in a few days.)

PURE

Thanks for all your replys I would agree that mobile 1 might not be what it used to be - but being that the car has always used it - I figured why change (I always used motul or shell in my other cars)...anyway - it could very well be coincidence that this problem surfaced right after a major service, but unfortuneately the dealer also failed to perfom a couple of other mundane task sthat they should have checked during the service and thus I am begining to doubt their credibility in general I spoke to Manthey and they said they can check it out- if they sense there is a problem they will have to pull the motor and that means big bucks in man hours - so needlesss to say I am not too happy about that....As for the noise - my GT3 always made the usual racket when strating up - particularly because I drive her on weekneds only, and the filter will drain after a few days as you know. Unfortunealtey, this noise is a bit different - it definetaly seems like a valvetrain oriented noise... I guess I'll have to wait for the experts to check it out. Hopefully I can get around to it this weekend so I can at least sleep easy. Looming repair bills are haunting me - Cross your fingers for me!

pranqster

Questions

Did you manually check the oil before you added oil? What were the results?

If you believe that the dealer could have caused a problem you can request the diagnostics they ran before they serviced your car, and have them run the diagnostics now when you take it in. At that point it might be wise to file a complaint with the district rep if you feel the dealer is not taking you seriously.

Blacksport350

Something that I just thought of, it could be a chain tensioner going bad and not a lifter. I'm not sure if the tensioner can be addressed with the engine in or if it needs to be removed.

PURE

We checked the stick and it read min -- however, being that the filter and the sump could have emptied - I don't really think that the reading was truly representative of the true amount of oil in the engine. We added a liter an the noise dimished to a degree, and the reading was more acceptable. However, being that my service bill notes 180 euro of oil - WHY should I be putting oil in my car a week later?! I am all for filing a grievance but the way things work here is I will need a lot of patience and a good laywer ($) to get anything done. A friend of mine had a bad experience with his dealer (different marque granted) and ultimately won his case - but it took him 3 years and a lot of denaro. May be more trouble than it is worth unfortuneatley...

Blacksport - You might be on to something - it could be the chain tensioner - as the noise is more akin to clacking/ rattling noise - as if something is loose as opposed to the rat tat tat of valves which are not seated properly. I too am unsure if the motor would have to pulled for such an adjustment...

Blacksport350

The chain tensioner should be hydraulic (off of oil pressure) and not require adjustment. So if it is the tensioner, it is probably going bad and either sticking or not pumping up.

PURE

I think you could be spot on Blacksport. The reality is while the car only has about 35kmiles - but it is used in a very on/off fashion (summer weekends in the hills or on track, winters on blocks) and thus these types of problems can creep up - even though it has always been impeccably maintained (with the exception of the questionable service I just recieved form the local dealer).

I am going to have it inspected on Monday so we'll find out soon. Could be nothing (hope, hope) but better safe then sorry.

Blacksport350

Good luck and let us know what it was!

PURE

Thanks! As soon as I know more, i'll be sure to update you guys on the situation... I still hope it is nothing more than my paranoia!