Any USER feedback on Toyos R888 ?
04-14-2008, 08:57 PM
#91
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I just flip wheels from side to side and run them backwards. Although it's a directional tire, it only matters if your running in the rain (So I was told by the race shop)). After swapping sides, it was a bit lumpy for a lap or 2 as the melted rubber got pushed the other way. Otherwise car felt the same and ran similar lap times. Just my $.02 and experience ... I am sure there are others who will disagree.
but that doesn't change the fact that the INSIDE SHOULDER of the tire will ALWAYS be the INSIDE SHOULDER of the tire no matter if you run it left or right. that's what i meant to say.
for those of use who piles street mileage and run more than 2.5 deg of camber, the inside gets destroyed. so i used to flip the tires on the rim in addition to swapping side to side.
but if you only drive on track, the wear of in/outside tire should be same or else it means you didn't have the camber set up well.
04-15-2008, 12:49 AM
#92
ok, i understand now.
when i say 1/2 life, what I REALLY mean is you have to waste the first set so you know what is the 1/2 life of that tire for YOU. you cannot depend on wear by appearance, but after one set, you should know when you need to flip based on when the first set dies out.
i used to do that, but now i just dont have the time anymore.
when i say 1/2 life, what I REALLY mean is you have to waste the first set so you know what is the 1/2 life of that tire for YOU. you cannot depend on wear by appearance, but after one set, you should know when you need to flip based on when the first set dies out.
i used to do that, but now i just dont have the time anymore.
05-26-2008, 01:45 PM
#93
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M R888 Experience:
GT3RS with Kussmaul Alignment. 245 front and 315 rear on 18 inch Fikse wheels.
Day 1 - tire squirm is horrible, unstable in high speed corners and a bit of wiggle under braking. Worst of all, my (finally) neutral car had oversteer. Not fun at all. Ran 8 half hour sessions day 1 and 7 on day 2.
After 5 30 minute sessions the squirm was gone (shaving would have been a good idea). Handling was still poor and I was two SECONDS SLOWER than on the 19 inch OEM Michelin N0 cup tires (which are not as grippy as the real cups). I was pretty upset. I also found that the tires worked better at pressures lower than what Toyo suggests - by the way, there must be a typo in their care and feeding suggestions. Target pressures are high 30's low 40's but they suggest 21lbs cold pressure to start?????
Day 2, I brought my pyrometer. At even 36 lbs Hot I was seeing only 160F across the back tires and 138 in front. I dropped pressures to 32 hot and got 185 in back and 165 in front - finally in the proper heat range. Lap times dropped too - to about 1 second faster than the street tires. Air temps was about 65 degrees and track surface at 94 deg F. Note, I was driving the snot out of the car but needed lower pressures to get proper heat into them. With 33 lbs all around I found the sweet spot and the tires worked well.
By the end of day 2 (7 x 30 mins) the tires were gripping properly and the squirm was gone. Performance was OK, but not as good as Cups and nowhere near as good as R 6 Hoosiers.
YMMV
I began with the suggested hot pressures of 36F 38 R. Ugh.
GT3RS with Kussmaul Alignment. 245 front and 315 rear on 18 inch Fikse wheels.
Day 1 - tire squirm is horrible, unstable in high speed corners and a bit of wiggle under braking. Worst of all, my (finally) neutral car had oversteer. Not fun at all. Ran 8 half hour sessions day 1 and 7 on day 2.
After 5 30 minute sessions the squirm was gone (shaving would have been a good idea). Handling was still poor and I was two SECONDS SLOWER than on the 19 inch OEM Michelin N0 cup tires (which are not as grippy as the real cups). I was pretty upset. I also found that the tires worked better at pressures lower than what Toyo suggests - by the way, there must be a typo in their care and feeding suggestions. Target pressures are high 30's low 40's but they suggest 21lbs cold pressure to start?????
Day 2, I brought my pyrometer. At even 36 lbs Hot I was seeing only 160F across the back tires and 138 in front. I dropped pressures to 32 hot and got 185 in back and 165 in front - finally in the proper heat range. Lap times dropped too - to about 1 second faster than the street tires. Air temps was about 65 degrees and track surface at 94 deg F. Note, I was driving the snot out of the car but needed lower pressures to get proper heat into them. With 33 lbs all around I found the sweet spot and the tires worked well.
By the end of day 2 (7 x 30 mins) the tires were gripping properly and the squirm was gone. Performance was OK, but not as good as Cups and nowhere near as good as R 6 Hoosiers.
YMMV
I began with the suggested hot pressures of 36F 38 R. Ugh.
05-26-2008, 05:44 PM
#94
M R888 Experience:
GT3RS with Kussmaul Alignment. 245 front and 315 rear on 18 inch Fikse wheels.
Day 1 - tire squirm is horrible, unstable in high speed corners and a bit of wiggle under braking. Worst of all, my (finally) neutral car had oversteer. Not fun at all. Ran 8 half hour sessions day 1 and 7 on day 2.
After 5 30 minute sessions the squirm was gone (shaving would have been a good idea). Handling was still poor and I was two SECONDS SLOWER than on the 19 inch OEM Michelin N0 cup tires (which are not as grippy as the real cups). I was pretty upset. I also found that the tires worked better at pressures lower than what Toyo suggests - by the way, there must be a typo in their care and feeding suggestions. Target pressures are high 30's low 40's but they suggest 21lbs cold pressure to start?????
Day 2, I brought my pyrometer. At even 36 lbs Hot I was seeing only 160F across the back tires and 138 in front. I dropped pressures to 32 hot and got 185 in back and 165 in front - finally in the proper heat range. Lap times dropped too - to about 1 second faster than the street tires. Air temps was about 65 degrees and track surface at 94 deg F. Note, I was driving the snot out of the car but needed lower pressures to get proper heat into them. With 33 lbs all around I found the sweet spot and the tires worked well.
By the end of day 2 (7 x 30 mins) the tires were gripping properly and the squirm was gone. Performance was OK, but not as good as Cups and nowhere near as good as R 6 Hoosiers.
YMMV
I began with the suggested hot pressures of 36F 38 R. Ugh.
GT3RS with Kussmaul Alignment. 245 front and 315 rear on 18 inch Fikse wheels.
Day 1 - tire squirm is horrible, unstable in high speed corners and a bit of wiggle under braking. Worst of all, my (finally) neutral car had oversteer. Not fun at all. Ran 8 half hour sessions day 1 and 7 on day 2.
After 5 30 minute sessions the squirm was gone (shaving would have been a good idea). Handling was still poor and I was two SECONDS SLOWER than on the 19 inch OEM Michelin N0 cup tires (which are not as grippy as the real cups). I was pretty upset. I also found that the tires worked better at pressures lower than what Toyo suggests - by the way, there must be a typo in their care and feeding suggestions. Target pressures are high 30's low 40's but they suggest 21lbs cold pressure to start?????
Day 2, I brought my pyrometer. At even 36 lbs Hot I was seeing only 160F across the back tires and 138 in front. I dropped pressures to 32 hot and got 185 in back and 165 in front - finally in the proper heat range. Lap times dropped too - to about 1 second faster than the street tires. Air temps was about 65 degrees and track surface at 94 deg F. Note, I was driving the snot out of the car but needed lower pressures to get proper heat into them. With 33 lbs all around I found the sweet spot and the tires worked well.
By the end of day 2 (7 x 30 mins) the tires were gripping properly and the squirm was gone. Performance was OK, but not as good as Cups and nowhere near as good as R 6 Hoosiers.
YMMV
I began with the suggested hot pressures of 36F 38 R. Ugh.
Nice post.
I running the 19" r888s on my gt3.
My setup is -2.8f with 1/16th toe-out and -2.3r with stock toe-in.
I agree with virtually everything you wrote.
The first day the tires were somewaht scary / slippery but at the end of day one they were much better - i was able to do 8 sesions that day and it took almost that long to get them working.
I too started with the 36f/38r hot but ended up at 35f/37r and i think you are correct that even a lower is better.
I noticed that from my tire wear that the 37 in the rear was much closer to being correct than 36f as the tires were not close to working the outter edges in the fronts but were getting better as I lowered the front temps - i will try 33f/35r next and bring my tire pyro
I too found the car went loose with the 36/38 when the tires were new but my cure was to keep the suspension setting in the soft mode and this worked for me
The tires are for sure better than the stock tires, i think as good as mpscs and and as you said, not as sticky as hoosiers.
Paul
05-26-2008, 09:58 PM
#95
GT3 player par excellence
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M R888 Experience:
GT3RS with Kussmaul Alignment. 245 front and 315 rear on 18 inch Fikse wheels.
Day 1 - tire squirm is horrible, unstable in high speed corners and a bit of wiggle under braking. Worst of all, my (finally) neutral car had oversteer. Not fun at all. Ran 8 half hour sessions day 1 and 7 on day 2.
After 5 30 minute sessions the squirm was gone (shaving would have been a good idea). Handling was still poor and I was two SECONDS SLOWER than on the 19 inch OEM Michelin N0 cup tires (which are not as grippy as the real cups). I was pretty upset. I also found that the tires worked better at pressures lower than what Toyo suggests - by the way, there must be a typo in their care and feeding suggestions. Target pressures are high 30's low 40's but they suggest 21lbs cold pressure to start?????
Day 2, I brought my pyrometer. At even 36 lbs Hot I was seeing only 160F across the back tires and 138 in front. I dropped pressures to 32 hot and got 185 in back and 165 in front - finally in the proper heat range. Lap times dropped too - to about 1 second faster than the street tires. Air temps was about 65 degrees and track surface at 94 deg F. Note, I was driving the snot out of the car but needed lower pressures to get proper heat into them. With 33 lbs all around I found the sweet spot and the tires worked well.
By the end of day 2 (7 x 30 mins) the tires were gripping properly and the squirm was gone. Performance was OK, but not as good as Cups and nowhere near as good as R 6 Hoosiers.
YMMV
I began with the suggested hot pressures of 36F 38 R. Ugh.
GT3RS with Kussmaul Alignment. 245 front and 315 rear on 18 inch Fikse wheels.
Day 1 - tire squirm is horrible, unstable in high speed corners and a bit of wiggle under braking. Worst of all, my (finally) neutral car had oversteer. Not fun at all. Ran 8 half hour sessions day 1 and 7 on day 2.
After 5 30 minute sessions the squirm was gone (shaving would have been a good idea). Handling was still poor and I was two SECONDS SLOWER than on the 19 inch OEM Michelin N0 cup tires (which are not as grippy as the real cups). I was pretty upset. I also found that the tires worked better at pressures lower than what Toyo suggests - by the way, there must be a typo in their care and feeding suggestions. Target pressures are high 30's low 40's but they suggest 21lbs cold pressure to start?????
Day 2, I brought my pyrometer. At even 36 lbs Hot I was seeing only 160F across the back tires and 138 in front. I dropped pressures to 32 hot and got 185 in back and 165 in front - finally in the proper heat range. Lap times dropped too - to about 1 second faster than the street tires. Air temps was about 65 degrees and track surface at 94 deg F. Note, I was driving the snot out of the car but needed lower pressures to get proper heat into them. With 33 lbs all around I found the sweet spot and the tires worked well.
By the end of day 2 (7 x 30 mins) the tires were gripping properly and the squirm was gone. Performance was OK, but not as good as Cups and nowhere near as good as R 6 Hoosiers.
YMMV
I began with the suggested hot pressures of 36F 38 R. Ugh.
Toyo suggest 40+ psi hot. I found that high for my driving. I rarely go over 35F/37R hot. Hum… I will try your 32-33 psi hot to see how it works.
“By the end of day 2 (7 x 30 mins) the tires were gripping properly and the squirm was gone.”
I also come to this conclusion. These tires end up not lasting long for me either. I did about 700 track miles, I see cord now. And by 600, the grip was not as good as I remembered when RA1 was at the same age.
However, I was also driving on hoosiers that day, so I may be confused and expects too much from R888.
Bob, how do you get your R6 to the track. I recall you drive the car to track? That’s what’s holding me back from using R6 full time.
05-26-2008, 11:14 PM
#96
First day on the track with my R888's I felt really uneasy as well, scary actually when they were squirmy/greasy and not broken in at all.. Now they feel great, I still don't like the turn in sometimes, opposed to a street tire or MPSC's it feels a bit bland/not as precise but could be changed from a suspension tweak or more camber who knows, I like them now though a lot!
05-26-2008, 11:21 PM
#97
Race Director
I have RA1's right now that are getting to there sweet spot and I probably have 3-4 more track days max in them. My 997S suspension is stock so -1 up front is all I can get so I tend to where the outside edge out but I flip my RA1's to get more life from them.
Can you flip the Nitto NT01 with there tread pattern? Does not look like a good thing to do on the Nitto. I am really considering the 888's next.
Can you flip the Nitto NT01 with there tread pattern? Does not look like a good thing to do on the Nitto. I am really considering the 888's next.
05-26-2008, 11:32 PM
#98
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You can flip the Nittos with no problem. You'll get more life out of them with stock settings.
05-26-2008, 11:39 PM
#99
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05-18-2009, 10:37 PM
#100
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i see that most of the gt3's run 18. What about the narrowbodies? What is a safe size for r888 on a 06 997S with lobsters (19x8 and 19X11) i was thinking 245 and 305. i dont want any rubbing.
05-20-2009, 06:32 PM
#101
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Here's my experience with Toyo R888 and Michelin Pilot Sport Cup:
Lap times: With time attack 'racing' on circuits Michelin is faster. This is a fact...Tested with multiple cars...Not much of course, but it is a bit.
Wet: Toyos are faster...
Without any surface left: Toyos become more slippery (not sure about the heat cycle part, because I've driven both new and used Toyos into cords and don't remember how it went...)
Wear: Toyos last longer...
Price: At least here in Europe Toyos are a lot cheaper. It's up to you if almost 50% more expensive Michelins are worth the bit faster times...Depends how tough your competition is.
All in all both are very good tires...Toyos perhaps easier to start with...
Lap times: With time attack 'racing' on circuits Michelin is faster. This is a fact...Tested with multiple cars...Not much of course, but it is a bit.
Wet: Toyos are faster...
Without any surface left: Toyos become more slippery (not sure about the heat cycle part, because I've driven both new and used Toyos into cords and don't remember how it went...)
Wear: Toyos last longer...
Price: At least here in Europe Toyos are a lot cheaper. It's up to you if almost 50% more expensive Michelins are worth the bit faster times...Depends how tough your competition is.
All in all both are very good tires...Toyos perhaps easier to start with...
