Big Red

I can't get all that excited about the sun roof issue we all talk about. I know it seems to be a big deal for many, but I just can't get to exercised about it. I am excited about getting my two new cars this next 30 days. My GT3 should be here the first half of November. I didn't get to may options. The fun is driving the car, not the color of the back of the seats to me. I think it will be so much fun. I am also not a track driver. I just enjoy spirited, safe driving when I can.

I get my second car on Tuesday next week. I bought a CLK 6.3 AMG in Denver and am having it shipped to South Carolina. It will be great to have a fast, luxury convertible and a really fast, handling sports car. I think both of them will make me smile. I believe the GT3 will be an incredible car. I can hardly wait to get it. I had a lot of trouble picking out the color. I kept switching from white to red. I finally picked red. I have had my last three porsche's in red.

Big Red
07 997 GT3--coming Nov 06
07 CLK 6.3 AMG-coming 3 days
07 GL450 Mercedes

mooty

bora, your GT3 was nice, my was high miler "used up"... that's what many buyers told me when they saw 18k and 22k on the clock.

i think they are just about ready to enter the prime of their lives. oh well.

kush07

That is shocking to me. Most people barely consider a porsche with that kind of mileage as barely broken in. Is the depreciation that much steeper for a GT3? Do you think it's because of the high degree of track use many of these cars get?

mooty

i dont know how to explain in theory why high miler GT3 prices really dumps.
but i will try.

MOST GT3's have pretty low miles. they are either track toy or weekend toy or prized possessions to show off with. very few ppl use them as daily drivers. go on car.com or autotrader, you will see 90% of the cars are less than 10k miles. most of these are asking 95k or so. but if you pluck down some hard cash on the table, you can have them for 80-85k all day long (including cars from dealers). so, even though a 20k car is barely broken in, knowing you can get a sub 10k miles car for 80-85k, why would you buy my 20k miler for more than 70-75k? the price drops very fast for high milers (this is a relative term here, if you can call 20k high miler) b/c most of these car are not driven much (by my standards, and this is my 3rd car). so next to the NORM, my cars' miles seem very high in comparison.

gt3_002

Very interesting comments on the TT and GT3. As a new ower to the 04 GT3 that I just purchased I have to ask?

Isn't a GT3 or GT2 consider as collector's car?

Regarding milage, when looking for a sport car I would look for the cleanest and non abuse car as I would think all would too. So regardless of miles 20K or 5K the car still would be consider a collectors car if it was in mint condtion... It is what you make of it with your purchase in relative to cost that make sense.

wilfred

Go with the GT3 I thought of getting the TT when I bought my 996 GT3 last year but for many reasons, the GT3 is the clear winner in my book. Even though many members on this forum track their GT3s or some will tell you that's what GT3s are made for or some will even think you are not worthy if you don't track it, well, I don't track mine simply because I don't go to the tracks.

The reasons I picked the GT3 over the TT:
- they are not as common
- it's factory lowered suspension looks just right imo, whereas the TT will need to be lowered and then bigger wheels and then this and then that...
- the way it drives, the GT3 has this raw feel to it whereas the TT is just too refine to my taste for a sports car

As far as your kids go, I have a 1+ year old also, but that's whet the sedan or SUV or minivan are for, even if the GT3 has backseat, I am sure it's too small for car seats anyways...

kush07

Mooty, you make perfect sense. It's very interesting to me because I've always viewed Porsches as drivers cars that attracted buyers who were not afraid to use their cars, whether street or track. To me, art is for collecting (not that I have any art, but that's besides the point). I will never buy a car as a collectible.

Bottom line is that I need to get behind the wheel of each, even though I may have to substitute a 996 for the 997, I'm figuring I can get the general feel.

Back to the true original question, though. In an effort to always have one better, does anyone think that the RS will have a significantly negative resale effect on the GT3?

Thanks for posts. Some interesting points being raised.

Kush

mooty

dont get me wrong, most rennlister do use their cars, i just use my a LOT more. thus the higher dep'n. although i dont mind that (you pay to play), but i want to state that make no mistakes, GT2/3 are not collector items and they do depreciate just like any other cars.

indeed, test driving them is the only way to understand the car. forget dep'n, just get what you enjoy and drive the **** out of them.

my guess would be that RS will hold value much better than GT3. why? one, there's always ppl who want "limited edition" cars. and from what i can tell at this point, just being able to get an RS is considered lucky. two, it's been a loooooooong time since porsche brought any RS into USA, so that two letters will going to carry some wt. so EVERYTHING being equal (condition and mileage) the RS will have higher resale value than a comparable GT3, but your buyer pool will be smaller for obvious reasons.

Holger B

The RS will be hard to get the first year, then PCNA/PAG will flood the market with cars. This is their m.o. What was the last limited edition P-car that was hard to buy...the CGT, GT3, GT2, 40th Anniv, Box 550, PCA Club Coupe? No, no, no. They built enough for demand and then some. The margins on the RS are fat and there's no way PAG is going to leave that money on the table.

GrantG

I totally agree, unless there is some low-volume exemption they are using to avoid crash-testing for the sunroof delete...

stuka

I don't think that I am a hard core track guy, and once I get this stpid insurance issue straighten out, I will probably resume my 12 track days a year.

That said, I gave the Turbo a fair shot, and in 2.5 yeras, and been on the track with it for 24 days.

I just never liked how it drove.

The PSM really makes one second guess oneself. Did I nailed that apex? Or did the computer nailed it for me?

Outside of computers, and AWD, the weight is also a big problem.

Have you ever driven a high HP car that weighs between 3400 and 3500 pounds? The heft really showes on the track and in your regular on/off ramp driving.

I can tell you that the difference in cornering even in street driving between the GT2 and the Turbo is night and day. Heavy cars just annoy me, especially now that I have a 2800 pound E30 and a 3100 pound GT2 looking back to the 3400 pound Turbo and the E46 M3.

Lighter is better.

Less electronic is better.

A nicer stereo would help with the daily driving aspect of the GT cars, but since I am permanently spoiled by my home Dynaudio setup, I moslty only listen to talk radios now anyway.

And yes, as someone who grew up dreaming of the 959, I was vastly disappointed by the Turbo, which was in every aspect a better car than the 959 in techincal terms.

kush07

After 2.5 years I agree that you gave it a shot. I'm sure eating that loss was a tough pill to swallow, but it sounds like your enjoying your decision.

PSM is an interesting dilemma for me. I remember when "shape" skis were introduced. Made mediocre skiers much better and the discussion was shouldn't we have to work a little harder to be better at things. All said, I certainly enjoyed being a better skier through technology. The fact that PSM can be disabled will make me confident that my skills are improving rather than the computers'. I don't think that was possible with your car.

More significant to me is actually the weight, suspension, throttle linearity (is that a word?), and to sum it up, the FUN FACTOR. Your mention of the 959 is interesting. I read an article comparing the 959 and the new turbo with the ultimate conclusion that faster is not necessarily more fun. That's actually what got me investigating the GT3.

This is a toy. Although I'm looking for some practicality behind it (I don't need teeth rattling suspension), I am looking for some serious grins. I will heed the advise given to test drive, find what I like, and drive it 'till the wheels fall off.

Thanks all for the comments. I'll let you know where I end up.

Kush

stuka

Actually, be warned that PSM CANNOT be fully disabled. This is by design, there is no way to fully disable it. AFAIK, the 997 Turbo still cannot be fully defeated like BMW's DSC. Was there a change in design in the 997 where this is no longer the case?

As far as your analogy goes, drivers aides are fine, but to me, part of tracking is for me to become a better driver. If the computer is compensating for my mistakes, how would I ever be better?

pole position

LOL, what are your times at Willow Springs ? Do you still "drift" ? It is safe to say that you never explored the performance potential of the 996tt to the max . Guaranteed and you will not max out the Gt2, another fact.

The GT3 is not a race car. Period. It is a road car. Porsche does make a track car, called the Cup car.

Now to all those driver aides, why don't you ask ANY pro driver what he thinks of them. Easy answer, the don't give a damn about feel...........if aids allow them to go faster everyone wants them.

If you are so high about the "feel" and becoming a better driver you better start racing open wheel cars , the difference between a full bodied car and them is night and day.

The 997tt a cushy Caddie ? It easily matches the GT3 on the Ring and on the Autobahn it is absolutly goodby 996/997 GT3.

stuka

Yes, but suffice to say that the pro drivers become pro drivers because they actually can control their cars.

How many times have you seen drivers that were trained with PSM/DSC/TC and progressed into the fast group, then they get in way way over their heads because the driver aides have allowed them to go fast without really learning some of the fundamentals?

I have seen it at Laguna Seca, at Sears Point, at Vegas, at Button Willow, and at PIR. That Laguna Seca event, three separate incidents in a fast group, all with drivers that were fast, but without the necessary skills to save the car. All three had to be towed off track, one went to the hospital, the other two were fine physically.

Me? I would rather drive slower knowing that I am sqaurely in control, not rely on computers to save me, and learn how to drive my cars. Isn't that what DE (I do believe that it stands for Driver's Education) means?