krC2S

i would say marketing but i am hoping they follow porsche's change with the RS
it seems car makers usually follow certain trends

the current CSL is sick.. 7:50 ring time from a car with 3.2 liter engine!!

997GT3

I cannot blame BMW for missing the bus and switching its DNA with the spate of V8 challengers the E46 M3 has endured for 6 years now. It is sad to see the I6 go out the door.

BMW M probably didn't think it feasible to evolve the S54 any further than it has already. But it should have. I have little doubt in my mind that the 997GT3's powerplant could have been challenged by BMW M; and in my mind 380+HP from a lighter I6 with focused steering and suspension would have made a lot of prospective 997 GT3 owners think twice. I do not think it would be too hard to develop a lighter E46 M3. Today - it can be built with lighter suspension, engine and chassis components - generate more power and probably be just as fuel efficient. And it could have had DSG.

Right now - the evolutionary upgrade to the S54 is the 997 GT3 and that's where my money is going next. I am not likely to by a BMW M V8. I would rather take the hellacious V10. BMW must bring back the real M3. Call it an M3L or anything they want - but a new M I6 must be born. Perhaps the M engineers felt the same initially calling it the M4 before Marketing stepped in.

MJSpeed

It seems that BMW's M division is being run by the same marketing jokers that are running Porsche.

krC2S

mjspeed..it's what the market wants...people like us who don't want a heavier more comfortable car with a big engine and lots of options are much less than those that do

when i heard about the 335 coupe i thought maybe they are doing a lighter less powerful one based on an I6 but it's 3500lbs!...actually that's probably true! maybe the new M3 is going to be more than 3500lbs

tlark

The looks..............its all Chris Bangle, nuff said !!

multi21

DOT- Crash tests. Not enough units to justify costs. Same reason Porsche won't send over their good stuff to N/A. CSL is too focused (as you can see from the 7:50 Ring times) BTW that time was posted on MPSC tires same as the 997GT3 will have in Europe, but may not have in US. They did not put DOT R-compound tires as OEM because of .... lawsuits.

Bringing us to the next reason...fear of litigation. The e-46 M3 was engineered to have cross drilled rotors, but came to the States with solid rotors. Fear of lawsuits. The E-30 M3 was pretty neutral. The E-36 and E-46 had significantly more understeer designed into them. I've read posts from GT3 owners who mention that the E-46 M3 pushes like a pig. In some respects that is true... if your going into a corner too hot. But about 2.7 degrees negative camber brings it back to neutral.

Finally, the cost of the CSL with its carbon fiber components brought the price up to Porsche levels. I've heard many BMW owners who indicated that as nice as the CSL may be, they would rather buy a Porsche for "that kind of money". And if BMW's hardcore driver's are considering another brand at a certain price point, then there is no point in bringing it here.

CME

Sorry not the infamous 'bubble car'.

That car was owned by a previous GT3 owner who now has a Cup car and lurks this forum.

Chet

CME

I also belong to the E30 M3 Sig and we have been saying on that list for many years now that 'M is for Marketing'.

Chet

earlyapex

I simply love the way the e30, e36, and e46 M3's look. It's obvious to all of us that the M3 has become a nice GT and strayed far from its heritage. BMW is selling allot of cars and could easily sell a stripped down M3 like the e30 M3 LW if the car was competetive on the track and the current narrow bodied e46 M3 with its S54 is not. Would you guys buy a GT3 if it was out motored by everything out there? I guess the e90 M3 settles the hp issue, but I don't see BMW going back to the basics. My e46 M3 stayed with me for 6 months. I loved looking at it and pushing the motor, but it only took one drive in my 40th to get me to leave it in the dealership lot and drive the Porsche home. I'll drop by the BMW dealership out of curiosity, but I'll get a GT3 when I'm done with my 40th!

pole position

No, BMW could not easily sell stripped down M3's. The E30 M3 had boat anchors attached to them when they were available, dealer incentives ? Yes. E36 M3 LWT, yeah, you guessed, could not give them away, trunkmoney again. RS America ? Don't even get me started on that discount priceleader and , surprise, DEALER INCENTIVES to get rid of them.

Now,where were you all you do gooders,experts and net forum F1 racing drivers in the early 90's when Porsche almost sold out to Daimler because they were close to folding ? So how come you guys did not do your part (read buying) in helping the company ? Dealers had to beg to sell cars (at huge discounts) and were killed on flooring costs .

Talk is cheap but excuses are even cheaper, GT2 = too expensive and widdowmaker / GT3 OMG a sunroof , I might scratch my Stand helmet / GT3 RS, not enough "hardcore" / Carr GT = we don't want any driver aids but help us we don't want to get killed so we have to sue etc etc .

Conclusion : if YOU would sit on the board you have responsibilities to every Porsche employee first to put bread on the table and keep the company in the black and would not give any considerations to some net forum "racers" who whine about not getting hardcore cars when Porsche actually builds a dedicated ............Cupcar........... but does it look good enough on Sunset Plaza with my Zaino wax ?.........

MJSpeed

First off, you need to calm down and put this into perspective. The whole point of these internet forums is to give individuals with similar interest a platform to share information, thoughts and opinions.

In the 90's I had just graduated High School and was in Europe running in some of the lesser formula's trying to make to F1!

For the record I did own an M3 LightWeight.

Please don't bring up the cupcar argument because it is of little to no relevance when discussing street models. Apples and Kumquots.

As much as I appreciate everyone's right to express their opinion whether I agree with it or not, I also know that I have the right not to read these posts and reply. As do you.

PS
There's no trailer park next to me.

bora

The problem with the S54 is that the bores in the block are too close
to each other. This is why they could not push the displacement to 3.6/3.8 range like they did with the S38. Having raced an E30 M3 and owned 4 M3s, I do feel sad about the disappearing i6. The car visually is not very appealing in black, but I am hoping that it would look better in finished form.

As far as the GT3 being the evolution of the S54, I completely disagree due to the flat six design of the GT3 engine.

gmoney99

Bora I think he means simply a ***** out n/a motor based on the cars history and heritage. The M3 is known for its smooth inline 6. Swapping to the V8 might annoy the purists but bottom line is BMW wants to sell cars - which they will - and much like Porsche is doing they dont give a rats a$$ about the hard core owner.

Having owned an S54 M Coupe I must say it was enjoyable...my kind of car. Thats why Im in the market for a GT3...similar no nonsense performance. There are faster cars but not many that can replicate the experience behind the wheel.

multi21

[QUOTE=bora]The car visually is not very appealing in black, but I am hoping that it would look better in finished form.


I agree. Although this is the least camaflouged car I've seen thus far, I don't like it. The flaired fenders don't look that flaired to me and the quad pipes stand out too much. I know that the exaust will eventually darken them and they won't be that noticable. The pipes are closer together than the e-46, but people will get used to it as they did with the Corvette quad pipes so close together.

A lot of BMW enthusists called for the V8 and can't wait for it to come. Very few BMWCCAers lament the demise of the I6 as it just wasn't competitive any longer against the other 8cyl. models and with the continual weight gain of each M3 generation.

8 Cyl. is the way of the future. Didn't I read recently that Porsche is patenting a Mid-Engine designed flat 8 vehicle?

earlyapex

The market for light weight, bare bones sports cars is obviously small and by itself costs a company a tidy sum. That however misses a very important point. A car company does not have to produce a model to simply sell enough to make money. Companies regularly put out models that they feel portray an image that gets more customers into their show rooms knowing well that most of these customers will buy a lesser model. This was the point of the Pontiac GTO and Fort GT. A M3 LW would go get great press and help reverse some of the negative views of the brand.

In the 80's, I was graduating high school and starting college. I couldn' afford a Porsche although I had a poster of a 930 in my dorm room. Yes, Porsche was the untimate sports car, but they did not know how to produce cars. Only after they learned how to make cars efficiently (through Toyota consultants) did the company get back to firm footing. You can't blame the customer for poor production management.

Now back to the subject of drivers' cars. Are we now left to Lotus to give us what we need? What does PASM and a sunroof do to the driving feel of the 997 GT3? Are we FOS for even caring? Drive the damn thing and if it feels good that should be good enough?

My 78 SC was one hell of a canyon carver before it became to much of a race car to drive safely on the street. I'm looking for something similar in feel. I fear that the car companies have let technology for technologies sake take this away from me.