Quit bitching about the sunroof!
06-11-2006, 12:27 AM
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Quit bitching about the sunroof!
I think you all are over reacting.
The GT3 has been revised to make it more of a "user friendly" daily driver. The sunroof is a convenience. The PASM is going to make it easier (and safer) for the "amateur" track guy.
The GT3 RS will not have the sunroof (imo), since it is a wide body, and subjected to different testing. If you are a true track guy, wringing the last ounce of performance out the car, then you don't want a sunroof, and you want the ceramics for the weight advantage. You can't have it both ways.
Performance at the margin is very expensive, so the weight reduction of the ceramics costs, quit bitching.
Porsche has given us a superior GT3 useful as a daily driver (and a true "sports" car that undoes the compromises in the regular car), and a superior track car in the RS, driveable to and from the track..short of a Cup Car (which is designed for the wannabe (and real) professional).
So wake up, and smell the roses!
Remember on the 996 GT3 Porsche only sold around 1000, so if they make that many GT3 RS cars then everyone should be happy. Plus, all the the GT3 potential buyers should be happy because they have a more useable car.
I'll be happy if the they only make 500 RS cars .
Food for thought
There are horses for courses!
The GT3 has been revised to make it more of a "user friendly" daily driver. The sunroof is a convenience. The PASM is going to make it easier (and safer) for the "amateur" track guy.
The GT3 RS will not have the sunroof (imo), since it is a wide body, and subjected to different testing. If you are a true track guy, wringing the last ounce of performance out the car, then you don't want a sunroof, and you want the ceramics for the weight advantage. You can't have it both ways.
Performance at the margin is very expensive, so the weight reduction of the ceramics costs, quit bitching.
Porsche has given us a superior GT3 useful as a daily driver (and a true "sports" car that undoes the compromises in the regular car), and a superior track car in the RS, driveable to and from the track..short of a Cup Car (which is designed for the wannabe (and real) professional).
So wake up, and smell the roses!
Remember on the 996 GT3 Porsche only sold around 1000, so if they make that many GT3 RS cars then everyone should be happy. Plus, all the the GT3 potential buyers should be happy because they have a more useable car.
I'll be happy if the they only make 500 RS cars .
Food for thought
There are horses for courses!
06-11-2006, 12:52 AM
#2
Nordschleife Master
I hear ya, but what I think many are concerned about is a $20K premium for paint, wide hips and a couple of suspension mods. If that's the case, I'll get a regular 997 GT-3.
One thing though. Why should a 997 be that much better than a 996? More HP, but same engine, so that's approachable. Any big time suspesion changes in the works. I know the chassis is a little stiffer, but otherwise???
One thing though. Why should a 997 be that much better than a 996? More HP, but same engine, so that's approachable. Any big time suspesion changes in the works. I know the chassis is a little stiffer, but otherwise???
06-11-2006, 01:00 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by Colm
I think you all are over reacting.
The GT3 has been revised to make it more of a "user friendly" daily driver. The sunroof is a convenience. The PASM is going to make it easier (and safer) for the "amateur" track guy.
The GT3 has been revised to make it more of a "user friendly" daily driver. The sunroof is a convenience. The PASM is going to make it easier (and safer) for the "amateur" track guy.
However, How is PASM going to make it easier and safer for an amateur track guy? It is NOT PSM! It simply firms up the shocks in sport mode. How is that safer or easier?
06-11-2006, 01:04 AM
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I agree wholeheartedly with colm. The 997 GT3 is only 40 lbs heavier than the 996 ( I mentioned this on a different thread already), so with PCCB they weigh the same. So, even though the extra sunroof weight is in an inconvenient place (the top of the car), the car still can weigh the same as the 996. Having driven both 996s (GT2 and GT3) and 997s (coupe, cab, S and Non-S for both), I can say that I prefer the 997 chassis.
I bet that on sport setting, with PCCB, that the 997 GT3 will both out-perform and have a better "feel" to it than the 996. I have a lot of time in the 996 GT2, and while its a GREAT car to drive, tons of fun on and off the track, it is not a good daily driver at all. I bet the 997 GT3 will be a great combination of both elements.
As for the RS: I think the premium is fair. PCCB is $8k right there, the suspension is different, you get a carbon fiber rear wing, roll cage, wide body and no sunroof. Lets face it, if all 997 GT3s have sunroofs, then the RS will hold its relative value much better.
I bet that on sport setting, with PCCB, that the 997 GT3 will both out-perform and have a better "feel" to it than the 996. I have a lot of time in the 996 GT2, and while its a GREAT car to drive, tons of fun on and off the track, it is not a good daily driver at all. I bet the 997 GT3 will be a great combination of both elements.
As for the RS: I think the premium is fair. PCCB is $8k right there, the suspension is different, you get a carbon fiber rear wing, roll cage, wide body and no sunroof. Lets face it, if all 997 GT3s have sunroofs, then the RS will hold its relative value much better.
06-11-2006, 01:11 AM
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Sports Chrono and softer shocks can work wonders, firmer shocks are not always what's wanted, especially in the hands of an amateur. The softer shocks can track the road better and give greater feedback and control, e.g. ice driving!
The pro driver already has the cup car, since he/she would not compromise or be satisfied with anything less.
The premium also includes the ceramics!
The pro driver already has the cup car, since he/she would not compromise or be satisfied with anything less.
The premium also includes the ceramics!
06-11-2006, 01:12 AM
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Until there is an US RS without sunroof the true enthusiasts among us have good reason to bitch. There is still reason to bitch at a GT3 with a sunroof, because the very idea is preposterous. Your post illustrates the reason why the US market doesn't get the truely hardcore cars - the market just doesn't get. We bitch because we're tired of the trend of watered down cars; from the Cayenne to the Turbo, we have good reason to bitch. We bitch because we love Porsche.
06-11-2006, 01:21 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by MetalSolid
Until there is an US RS without sunroof the true enthusiasts among us have good reason to bitch. There is still reason to bitch at a GT3 with a sunroof, because the very idea is preposterous. Your post illustrates the reason why the US market doesn't get the truely hardcore cars - the market just doesn't get. We bitch because we're tired of the trend of watered down cars; from the Cayenne to the Turbo, we have good reason to bitch. We bitch because we love Porsche.
it doesnt make you a "true enthusiast", it makes you a whiney enthusiast!
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06-11-2006, 01:32 AM
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Metalsolid,
If you consider your self a true enthusiast, then you will already have a deposit dowm on the RS (so no worries about getting one).
The 997 GT3 RS will be a much improved (more hardcore) car over the 996 GT3, so where is the bitch?
The 997 GT3 will even be an improved car over the 996 GT3, for the majority of buyers (more useable), so where is the bitch?.
If you consider your self a true enthusiast, then you will already have a deposit dowm on the RS (so no worries about getting one).
The 997 GT3 RS will be a much improved (more hardcore) car over the 996 GT3, so where is the bitch?
The 997 GT3 will even be an improved car over the 996 GT3, for the majority of buyers (more useable), so where is the bitch?.
06-11-2006, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by icon
what exactly are your bitchy posts accomplishing? nada!
it doesnt make you a "true enthusiast", it makes you a whiney enthusiast!
it doesnt make you a "true enthusiast", it makes you a whiney enthusiast!
06-11-2006, 01:40 AM
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Well said Colm. I think Porsche has two great cars out there; each designed for a specific group. If I wanted to use my GT3 mainly for a track car, and maybe drive it a couple of times a month on the weekends, I would get an RS. If I wanted my GT3 to be a fun, more every-day-use car that I could take to the track a few times a year and love it - I would get the base GT3. Which is why I have my deposit in on the non-RS. Its perfect for what I want. I loved the GT2, but it did get tiresome as a daily driver. I think my GT3 will be a better compromise.
I did consider moving to the RS once the sunroof was confirmed......but, overall I don't think it will affect me at all. I am not a good enough driver on the track for it to have a great effect on my performance.
I did consider moving to the RS once the sunroof was confirmed......but, overall I don't think it will affect me at all. I am not a good enough driver on the track for it to have a great effect on my performance.
06-11-2006, 01:56 AM
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I think there is a great deal of confusion out there.
The GT3 RS is a wide body, and won't have a sunroof (imo). Nobody has posted yet how they tested the wide body.
The GT3 is a narrow body (997) and has the sunroof.
Porsche is not stupid, and knows what they are doing. Now, if I'm wrong and the RS comes with a sunroof, well I'll take more lessons and beg for a Cup Car (I'm purist in intent if not in capability).
The GT3 RS is a wide body, and won't have a sunroof (imo). Nobody has posted yet how they tested the wide body.
The GT3 is a narrow body (997) and has the sunroof.
Porsche is not stupid, and knows what they are doing. Now, if I'm wrong and the RS comes with a sunroof, well I'll take more lessons and beg for a Cup Car (I'm purist in intent if not in capability).
06-11-2006, 02:01 AM
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Colm, I guess I don't understand why the "majority of buyers" purchase a GT3 as a daily driver, when a C2S X51 or Turbo will serve them better? I guess because it looks better and gives them that racer image. I really don't care. I would just like to have had the option...
06-11-2006, 02:15 AM
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Metalsolid,
Having owned all the aforementioned cars and just buying another X51 until the GT3 comes I have to disagree.
The Turbo is a great car but a "cruiser", and not an accomplished drivers car, that is not say that an accomplished driver can't have a lot of fun in this car. But the car does too much for (and gets in the way of) the performance driver.
The X51 is a great daily driver, but if you want a "double duty" car (or additional, like me) for going to the track, semi-regularly, then the reliability (dry sump) and pedigree of the GT3 beckons.
If the majority of the use is track and you've honed your skills, but for budget purposes need to comute to and from the track, then the GT3 RS is the temptress
And if you're really accomplished on the track and can support the ancilliary equipment then the Cup Car is a must.
Having owned all the aforementioned cars and just buying another X51 until the GT3 comes I have to disagree.
The Turbo is a great car but a "cruiser", and not an accomplished drivers car, that is not say that an accomplished driver can't have a lot of fun in this car. But the car does too much for (and gets in the way of) the performance driver.
The X51 is a great daily driver, but if you want a "double duty" car (or additional, like me) for going to the track, semi-regularly, then the reliability (dry sump) and pedigree of the GT3 beckons.
If the majority of the use is track and you've honed your skills, but for budget purposes need to comute to and from the track, then the GT3 RS is the temptress
And if you're really accomplished on the track and can support the ancilliary equipment then the Cup Car is a must.
06-11-2006, 03:16 AM
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Seems to me that people spend way too much time worrying about what we may or may not get, instead of simply waiting to see what is actually coming. I enjoy reading the opinions and the concerns. But the Prelim order guide (many are referring to) is not the last word and even the order guide may not allow sunroof delete, but maybe it will follow suit.
I prefer to put down my deposit, wait and see what they offer when my spot comes up and then deicde what to do. In the meantime I will enjoy the cars I have. If what they offer is of interest I will get one (if I an afford it), and if I like it after I get it, will probably sell whatever it most closely resembles, and I will have a new car to enjoy.
No question Porsche has made a change in direction over the years, but they still make the best bang for the buck supercars/sports cars. We are enthusiasts and want something special. If you can get it in Germany we should get it here. That is a philosply that has not been endorsed by PMNA, who get paid based on bottom line perfomance, not Porsche heritage. The brand remains intact, even if their biggest market doesn't get every option and as such they can continue with their philosophy.
I think they have stayed out of factory racing too long and that will eventually influence the brand and what they build. The current Chairman is running a car company, not Porsche. He wants to be a Chairman of a bigger (imo) car Company, so they bought 20% of Audi. He said 2 years ago Porsche would not build any car that did not go to "every world" market. 6 months later they did not bring the GT3 RS to the USA. When asked he said they brought the GT3 and that was basically the same car. Yet we all know it was not.
When the chief designer for Ferrari was asked recently what he worries about he said "Porsche, they are really on their game"... "they are our only real competition". That is quite a compliment from another premium brand, that has a genius marketing program. So in spite of things not being like the past Porsche has a bright future and we will get to enjoy those cars, even if we have to take a sunroof.
JCM
I prefer to put down my deposit, wait and see what they offer when my spot comes up and then deicde what to do. In the meantime I will enjoy the cars I have. If what they offer is of interest I will get one (if I an afford it), and if I like it after I get it, will probably sell whatever it most closely resembles, and I will have a new car to enjoy.
No question Porsche has made a change in direction over the years, but they still make the best bang for the buck supercars/sports cars. We are enthusiasts and want something special. If you can get it in Germany we should get it here. That is a philosply that has not been endorsed by PMNA, who get paid based on bottom line perfomance, not Porsche heritage. The brand remains intact, even if their biggest market doesn't get every option and as such they can continue with their philosophy.
I think they have stayed out of factory racing too long and that will eventually influence the brand and what they build. The current Chairman is running a car company, not Porsche. He wants to be a Chairman of a bigger (imo) car Company, so they bought 20% of Audi. He said 2 years ago Porsche would not build any car that did not go to "every world" market. 6 months later they did not bring the GT3 RS to the USA. When asked he said they brought the GT3 and that was basically the same car. Yet we all know it was not.
When the chief designer for Ferrari was asked recently what he worries about he said "Porsche, they are really on their game"... "they are our only real competition". That is quite a compliment from another premium brand, that has a genius marketing program. So in spite of things not being like the past Porsche has a bright future and we will get to enjoy those cars, even if we have to take a sunroof.
JCM