lowside67

i was just thinking that!

TD in DC

My point to you is what makes you so certain you have "mastered" a 993? If you and Lucas Luhr (or insert the great driver of your choice) both took laps in your car, would you match his time? It is your car so you should have the advantage of familiarity, after all If you cannot, then maybe there is more lurking in your car than you realize, which for me is the essence of this sport.

TD in DC

Hmmm. I reread the threads and didn't see a single post that "knocked" the 996GT3. Instead, I saw posts pointing out that the 996 GT3 is not likely to be considered the "last" true Porsche in the long term. In fact, your comparison of the 996 GT3 to the 73 RS makes this point very well. I am certain that in '74 people were mourning the end of the '73RS as the end of "the last true sportscars", and now you are comparing a much later car to the '73RS as "the last of the true sportscars."

I almost bought a 996 GT3 until one of your fellow GT3 drivers talked me out of it, at least temporarily. The fact that I do not currently own one does not mean that I (1) could not own one, (2) do not "deserve" to own one, (3) will not own one in the future, or (4) cannot have opinions on its historical significance.

After all, for all you know, I have more in common with you than many who actually do currently own GT3s . . .

mooty

give it up man. i predict a GT3 will be in your possession in less than 6 months. i am fighting the urge to have another one every other day!

TD in DC

Yeah, I keep seeing great deals pop up on the used market, and now that I have a tow vehicle that I can use to haul the kids around town, I am so, so, so tempted. The only problem that I see is that it would be very hard to crawl back into the '44 if I had a GT3 seductress saying . . "come on big guy, ride me hard . . . " I need to learn a lot more about momentum driving before I take the wax from my ears to hear the siren song . . . .

Atgani

pcar964On the contrary sir, I'm being an optimist and a realist rather than wallowing in the "the good old days were the best" mentality you so willingly subscribe too.

Every time a new model is introduced, the likes of yourself bemoan the changes.

Porsche build a car that will suit the vast percentage of their target market, for the few that want to fine tune their cars, the likes of RUF, Manthey etc are waiting to take your hard earned cash and tailor a car to your exact needs.
No other manufacturer produces a car that can perform so admirably on track and be used on the road as well (and remain reliable)

You sir are a luddite ! Are your Michaelangelo paintings lit by candlelight ?
Should you not be sending your messages by carrier pigeon instead of posting on here ???

pcar964

There's not much left "lurking" in my bone stock 993 at 2:35 at Sebring with blown shocks. If anyone wants to chime in with a faster time with a stock 993, I'm all ears You don't need to be Lucas Luhr to master a 911. Although, it seems to make some people feel better when they try to put everyone who's not a professional in the same "average driver" category like themselves, and imagine those pros are somehow untouchable... that way, they don't have to compare themselves to their peers who might be much better drivers. I think in psychology, it's called "framing" or something...

TD in DC

I am certain this is true, but I think that is a "different" topic all together. I went from a 996 with PSM on the track to a '44 without any electronics or even ABS. I knew when I made an error with the 996, but the car would "save" itself before it actually spun, so I didn't learn "drastic" skid recovery techniques. Since driving the 944, I have been "forced" to learn these skills, which I firmly believe can only be learned through experience. In fact, I have since gone to a few schools where you induce nasty TTO skids just so that you can hone your car control skills. The better your car control skills, the more confident you are to drive your car at the edge, which in turn allows you to be much, much faster.

The bottom line is that it is much easier to learn how to drive well without the electronics, or even ABS. Once you can drive well, however, the electronics do not, for the most part, prevent you from driving the car just as well and just as fast as you could without the aids. If you then "race" a lesser driver in the same car that has electronics, you will still clean their clock, and no amount of electronics will compensate for their lack of skills.

In short, a modern car may make it harder to learn because it is harder to "exceed" the car's limits, but it still will not drive for you or compensate for your lack of skills vis-a-vis skilled drivers in the same type of car. There are tons of people who "think" they are fast because they have seemingly low lap times in a modern car. This does not mean that they are good drivers, or that they are even near 8-9/10s of the capabilities of their car. It just means that they are fooling themselves, and mistakenly thinking they are a better driver than the fellow with a 10 second slower time but that squeezed every available second out of the 100 rwhp car they are driving.

9Eleven

The 996 Gt3 is still kicking *** in the Rolex series. Win at the 24 hour at Daytona, and a podium finish last week at VIR, beating all of the other Porsches.

TD in DC

Forgive me if I am skeptical of anyone who considers themselves to be a great driver and who is getting "everything" possible out of their car.

Rather than "framing," I think it is called humility and being realistic.

If you are really getting everything possible out of your 993, which I still seriously doubt , then all the electronics in the world would not stand in your way of getting everything out of a 996 or a 997GT3 with all the goodies you hate. You would also crush any time you could think of in your 993 without those electronic goodies.

Also, I think that the possibility of more speed "lurking" in my car in its current form is a great thing. It would be depressing to know that I have already reached the ultimate plateau of driving. What would be the point of continuing on the amateur level?

P.S. You definitely are a romantic luddite. Do you wear a puffy pirate shirt as well? Ayeee matee, hand over the booty!!!!!!!!!!

Bob Rouleau

The 996 GT3 has ABS. Period. Good drivers never use it and it only intervenes when something unexpected happens - like a 944 drops antifreeze in the braking zone<grin - cheap shot acknowledged>.

The 997 GT3 has ABS and traction control. TC can be switched off. PASM gives a choice of firm and very firm. The former is nice for the trip home. The 997GT3 weighs 30 lbs more than the 996. Not bad considering the power is up from 380 to 415. What's not to like?

Having said that my deposit is in for a 997 GT3RS which I hope will be more hard-core than the regular version.

Watching the evolution of the lawsuit surrounding Ben Keaton's accident, I fear that we won't have choices in the future. If Porsche is fouond at fault for not putting PSM on the CGT, you can be damn sure that it will show up on everything, and the feds will probably mandate it.

TD in DC

Cheap shot appropriate and deserved. After the first race of the season this year was held during a blizzard (I kid not ), I forgot to take the antifreeze out of my car. At VIR a few weeks ago, the hose from the bottom of my overflow tank popped loose and dumped antifreeze all over my own front tires. I didn't notice since it wasn't a huge quantity. I went to turn in and nothing happened . . . no movement, no squeel, nothing. I thought something must have broken . . .until the tires apparently scrubbed off the antifreeze, grabbed and then popped the rear around violently. When I was pointing in the right direction I instinctively nailed the gas and the car took off without spinning. Hmmm, I thought. I tested the car through the next curves and straight and everything seemed fine, so I assumed (where the problem really started) that it was just a slick spot on the track, so I got back up to full speed and took a much faster corner. Turn in, and NOTHING again. Finally gripped but this time snapped the car around much more violently and put me three wheels off. I saved the car from a spin but geeeeezzzzz. pitted in, found the problem and no further excitement for the day.

Atgani

Or maybe Porsche AG could threaten to stop supplying cars to the USA

But seriously, BMW GB made E46 M3 CSL owners sign a disclaimer if the car was supplied on MPS Cups.
If this is the way lawyers in the USA are going to treat companies like Porsche, perhaps all owners of new Porsches should be made to sign a disclaimer saying they accept the consequences of driving a performance car and accept that accidents are caused by peoples inability to control such cars (and not the cars inabilty to think for the cretin behind the steering wheel )

Bob Rouleau

Atgani - I agree and I would not be surprised if we do see a disclaimer. Perhaps tied to an invitation to attend a HP driving school, if declined the waiver would be presented.

I've said it before, in the USA there are no incompetent drivers, just bad cars and very good lawyers.

MJSpeed

At that point make all features optional and you'll sign a waiver for not taking all the safety features available...and where do I sign!