billatlanta

Rolo - Very well put. I suspect the premium will be more like 30k+ and the RS will be $50k+, both of which I can not rationalize.

pcar964

wow I guess I'm in the minority even in the GT3 forum... and seriously, I didn't have an agenda with this thread - I just wanted to see how you GT3 guys felt about owning (what I feel) is the last of the breed. But I guess you're all chomping at the bit to get your 997s.

I find it disappointing that instead of trying to improve as drivers, some of you are more than willing to say "I'm not a great driver" and can't wait to use Porsche's new electronics to make you faster. To me, that's not what the sport is about.

icon

greg,
i think part of it is people already knew about the pasm and tc.
where have you been???

pcar964

I must have been in lala land, because I didn't know that PASM or variable steering were confirmed, until I just read the Excellence article yesterday...

TD in DC

I, personally, understand your perspective and even agree with it for the most part. I just think that your passion is not quite placed in the correct perspective. I mean, given your criteria, the 996 GT3 is not really an ideal example. Many others that came and went before arguably are closer to your ideal than the 996 GT3.

With respect to what this sport is all about, that is driving. No amount of electronics will substitute for great driving. Of course, put a mediocre driver in a 997 GT3 and he might be able to take a great driver in a 1973RS. But, a great driver in a 997GT3 will still be able to clean the clock of a mediocre driver in a 997GT3, regardless of the electronics it may or may not have. THAT is what the sport is all about.

I am all for more choice in how we option our Porsches, and I am also definitely for more focus on lighter weight, but I think you are pushing the luddite thing too far sometimes. New can be faster and better. Maybe not right away, but it will get there.

JFT

I utterly disagree with that. The 997GT3 will not make a poor driver a good one. Sounds like you need to get passionate about some other manufacturers if your idea of enjoyment is to tame something unruly and if you dislike technological innovation. TVR?

Again, I do respect your point-of-view. But please don't tell me I like the 997 GT3 because I don't want to improve as a driver...

pcar964

I see your point, there are other cars that are more raw. Porsches used to be that way, and they were the BEST at it, which is why I became the Porschephile I am today. Now just as I am getting old enough to buy a new Porsche, they're changing their mantra. Hence my frustration.

And I don't see how driving a car that corrects your mistakes for you, will make you a better driver.

TD in DC

I am unaware of any P-car that "corrects your mistakes for you," and I seriously doubt the 997GT3 will be any different.

Without a doubt, the newer Porsches are much, much more tolerant of sloppy driving. But that does not mean that they no longer reward smooth, precise driving. That is what I think you may be underrating.

pcar964

The whole premise... the excitement of driving sportscars... is the risk/reward. Reward proper driving, punish poor driving. That's what makes it fun to "get right." There comes a point where the risks are too small, and the rewards are too easy. I think Porsche hit that wall with the 993. The GT3 brought back the edginess that's completely absent in the 996... and now electronics will rob the 997 GT3 of that.

Is it exciting to master a car that your baby sister could get in and drive with ease? I'm sure I'll be accused of being on a "macho kick" and therefore being immature. Then again, maybe some of you have forgotten that cars are supposed to be macho toys...

...and the feminization of society continues...


(some of this is tonque-in-cheek guys, don't take too seriously )

red993tt

Y'all stop whinning there'll be 997 GT3RS to the US.

Atgani

Having had several 964 RSs (and a 993RS) I recently purchased a MK 1 GT3, IMHO all this talk of Porsche losing their way and producing "softer" cars is nonsense.
The evolution of any car will always have the diehard enthusiasts complaining that "things ain't what they used to be"
I always considered myself an "aircooled" supporter. however having driven my GT3 properly for the first time over the weekend, I'd take the GT3 over the 993RS EVERY time.
The game has moved on (and will continue to do so) and whilst it's true the aircooled cars have their own unique character, anyone that says they're better than the newer cars is dreaming, and the same goes for the 996 and the 997.

Whilst I agree some companies do fit unecessary technology for "technologies sake" Porsche IMO, aren't one of them.

Anything fitted by Porsche as a driver aid will be switchable on the 997 GT3, if you don't want it on, you switch it off, it's as simple as that.

The variable ratio steering rack will stop the majority of owners complaining the car is too nervous when being driven at speed but will allow small inputs to have a big affect at lower speeds and extremes of lock, both of which are benefits.

This view that " it's new and I haven't tried it, therefore it can't be any good" is a very blinkered and pointless until the product has been tried.
Informed judgements based on fact are far more constructive than jumping to conclusions based on preconceptions.

pcar964

Yet you seem to have already decided that the new car is better glaring hypocrisy

NOBLEGT3

thoughts are you are wrong. do you still use a rotary phone? 997 GT3 will *** kick the 996GT3 so thats all that matters. lap times and performance my man. nothing else enters the equation

DanH

I'm still waiting to see by how much, when both are on the same tyre compound

I really sympathise with pcar964s argument, and have got dragged into defending that stance myself, but right now I don't see the point talking about it any more until we've all had a play in the new car. Right now all we have to go on is marketing and some limited driving impressions in the specialist press, so it comes down to arguing different journalists viewpoints of which bits work and which don't.

Time to evaluate will be when we see them at trackdays. If the 997s are much faster then I'll feel good overtaking them. If they overtake me, then it's fine, they are faster

It seems entirely plausible to me, that the RS will be a higher volume model than before, and intended to fill the more track focused roll that a lot of us want whilst the 997 GT3 shuffles a little more towards the middle ground of on road comfort and less aggressive geo (which can obviously be 'corrected').

pcar964

Something tells me, you prefer Pollack to Michaelangelo.