video: Manthey tuned 911 GT3
#16
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by healeyg
RS is likely cheaper when considering resale value, no ?? i know which one i would take for the $$ ...
A 440 tuned RS is going to knock the socks off the 997GT3 in terms of performance, and most likely the 997 RS too (subject to specs).
Of course with the 440 package I'd barely be able to get the car onto any race track in the UK due to noise restrictions.
#17
Originally Posted by DanH
30k Euros for the 440. Not sure if that includes the suspension package as well.
A 440 tuned RS is going to knock the socks off the 997GT3 in terms of performance, and most likely the 997 RS too (subject to specs).
Of course with the 440 package I'd barely be able to get the car onto any race track in the UK due to noise restrictions.
A 440 tuned RS is going to knock the socks off the 997GT3 in terms of performance, and most likely the 997 RS too (subject to specs).
Of course with the 440 package I'd barely be able to get the car onto any race track in the UK due to noise restrictions.
Manthey lives with quite restrictive noise regulations on its home circuit. When I commission cars from local tuners, I mostly find exhaust noise to be a matter of choice rather than performance. Normally, I select exhaust systems with additional pipes which open under extreme conditions. This lets the cars (nominally) pass the TÜV and track noise tests, without giving up the ability to 'sound like God in his vinegar strokes'. Valve opening is controlled by the ECU. With this arrangement, you can drop out the cats at the track, switch fuel maps and have flames out the back, which is always a good party trick.
R+C
#18
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Nordschleife
440 horsepower tends to assert itself.
Manthey lives with quite restrictive noise regulations on its home circuit. When I commission cars from local tuners, I mostly find exhaust noise to be a matter of choice rather than performance. Normally, I select exhaust systems with additional pipes which open under extreme conditions. This lets the cars (nominally) pass the TÜV and track noise tests, without giving up the ability to 'sound like God in his vinegar strokes'. Valve opening is controlled by the ECU. With this arrangement, you can drop out the cats at the track, switch fuel maps and have flames out the back, which is always a good party trick.
R+C
Manthey lives with quite restrictive noise regulations on its home circuit. When I commission cars from local tuners, I mostly find exhaust noise to be a matter of choice rather than performance. Normally, I select exhaust systems with additional pipes which open under extreme conditions. This lets the cars (nominally) pass the TÜV and track noise tests, without giving up the ability to 'sound like God in his vinegar strokes'. Valve opening is controlled by the ECU. With this arrangement, you can drop out the cats at the track, switch fuel maps and have flames out the back, which is always a good party trick.
R+C
I know people with Manthey cars in the UK, and they are all too noisy a typical limit is 101 db static and 87db drive by at 20m, and depending on wind direction, temperature & etc the latter can be a problem even for cars on factory exhausts (friends with CSLs have had problems).
#19
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Originally Posted by DanH
A 440 tuned RS is going to knock the socks off the 997GT3 in terms of performance, and most likely the 997 RS too (subject to specs).
And no, I haven't changed my mind re. the 997 GT3 PASM and TC. I still think it's for sissies.
Ciao,
#20
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Mr. C4
And the 997 GT3 with a presumeable Manthey motor upgrade kit of say 450bhp will eat the 996 GT3 and RS for breakfast.
And no, I haven't changed my mind re. the 997 GT3 PASM and TC. I still think it's for sissies.
Ciao,
And no, I haven't changed my mind re. the 997 GT3 PASM and TC. I still think it's for sissies.
Ciao,
I'm told the 440 has a noticeable torque improvement too, so presumably they haven't just gone for headline bhp.
Back to the 997 vs 996 the improved suspension on the 997 is based on changes made on the 996 GT3 RS, so all things being equal I assume the lighter car will win if you are modding an RS. Be interesting to see what the 997 RS comes with
Interestingly though, Herr Manthey apparently doesn't think much of the RS suspension changes on a road car. At least that is the impression I've been given by one of his fairly enthusiastic customers. I can't reconcile that though as everyone else seems to think it removes bump steer and makes it better, including some fairly handy drivers. The only downside I'm aware of is the ride height.
#21
Addict
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The comparison between the 996 GT3 RS and the 997 GT3 will be an interesting one. I don't see the 997 GT3 breaking 7:43 at the Ring.
The Manthey 440 kit is worth the money for someone rebuilding a tired GT3 engine.
The Manthey 440 kit is worth the money for someone rebuilding a tired GT3 engine.
#22
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by NJ-GT
The comparison between the 996 GT3 RS and the 997 GT3 will be an interesting one. I don't see the 997 GT3 breaking 7:43 at the Ring.
The Manthey 440 kit is worth the money for someone rebuilding a tired GT3 engine.
The Manthey 440 kit is worth the money for someone rebuilding a tired GT3 engine.
#23
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I've been quoted US $25k for an engine rebuild. I would rather expend $35k on the 440 kit, but this engine is so strong that I might have to wait 5 years or more.
You can always Turbocharge, Supercharge or Nitrocharge a GT3.
You can always Turbocharge, Supercharge or Nitrocharge a GT3.
#24
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by NJ-GT
You can always Turbocharge, Supercharge or Nitrocharge a GT3.
#25
Originally Posted by DanH
Which aftermarket exhausts have controllable exhaust flaps? I love a good engine note, but the RS is right on the limits in the UK as it is, and some of our best circuits have drive by testing monitored by the council remotely.
I know people with Manthey cars in the UK, and they are all too noisy a typical limit is 101 db static and 87db drive by at 20m, and depending on wind direction, temperature & etc the latter can be a problem even for cars on factory exhausts (friends with CSLs have had problems).
I know people with Manthey cars in the UK, and they are all too noisy a typical limit is 101 db static and 87db drive by at 20m, and depending on wind direction, temperature & etc the latter can be a problem even for cars on factory exhausts (friends with CSLs have had problems).
I have my exhaust systems built for me, either by the race team, if they have time, or by one of the specialist builders. This is not cheap work as it involves some programming work on the ECU so we can switch maps (always specify cruise control, it gives you a way of switching programs without filling the car with aftermarket switches) and drive the exhaust throttle bodies (valves). I've just had a look at a recent invoice for work on a Biturbo and that came to EUR 15,000 including down pipes, programming, TÜV certificatiuon, uprated fuel pumps and incidentals. If you have never experienced flames out the back, you should try it some time, very liberating.
Any serious shop can do this work. In the UK I have been impressed by Larini's exhaust systems.
R+C
#26
Originally Posted by Nordschleife
Manthey have been selected to run the Porsche Junior race team by PAG. Is this good enough for you?
As a German resident, I respect several tuners work, including Ruf, TechArt, Manthey, TTP and RS. However, a good tuner in Germany is not the same thing as a good agent in the US. I look for a tuner that has a proper engine brake, not just a chassis dyno, that has an intimate relationship with the factory, that has a track record and that I can have a proper relationship with.
R+C
As a German resident, I respect several tuners work, including Ruf, TechArt, Manthey, TTP and RS. However, a good tuner in Germany is not the same thing as a good agent in the US. I look for a tuner that has a proper engine brake, not just a chassis dyno, that has an intimate relationship with the factory, that has a track record and that I can have a proper relationship with.
R+C
#27
Originally Posted by JAGOLDENBXSTR
As a German resident then I assume that you also know how pickey those tuners are i who they select especially Olaf at Manthey! So yes the fact that Alegra has a proven racing record and has been selected by what I percieve to be one of the best German tuners as its US agent then yes I am satisfied in my selection. In addition Alegra has gained respect from the US racing world for his work from the likes of Brumos and TRG. Again considering all of these factors I am satisfied that the work will be top notch!
R+C
#28
Three Wheelin'
NS - Larini are Italian I believe? The only knowledge I have of them is from lotus Elise systems and they don't seem to fit very well!
To be honest, I'm not wealthy enough to spend 15k euros on an engine note and a small amount of power. Be better putting it into improving my driving!
To be honest, I'm not wealthy enough to spend 15k euros on an engine note and a small amount of power. Be better putting it into improving my driving!
#29
Originally Posted by DanH
NS - Larini are Italian I believe? The only knowledge I have of them is from lotus Elise systems and they don't seem to fit very well!
To be honest, I'm not wealthy enough to spend 15k euros on an engine note and a small amount of power. Be better putting it into improving my driving!
To be honest, I'm not wealthy enough to spend 15k euros on an engine note and a small amount of power. Be better putting it into improving my driving!
Larini Systems is tucked into a Mews in North London. Phone +44 870 777 9060. My exhaust system was expensive because at one stage a bloke a bit like an organ builder got a load of different pipes and resonating boxes and proceeded to tune the exhaust note, bouncing the pulses off one bank against the other and controlling exactly how much mixing and resonating went on. When this was done they had to properly fabricate the entire system, including provisions for removing the cats. As this included down pipes for Turbo chargers as well, and all the original programming, design and development, I was lucky it wasn't more expensive.
I really believe that you could get a decent system for a reasonable amount, these days you can buy most of the throttle body bits from the VW (Bentley) parts bin.
R+C
PS you know you have done a good job with the exhaust when the development team asks you to demonstrate how fruity the whole thing is