DanH

30k Euros for the 440. Not sure if that includes the suspension package as well.

A 440 tuned RS is going to knock the socks off the 997GT3 in terms of performance, and most likely the 997 RS too (subject to specs).

Of course with the 440 package I'd barely be able to get the car onto any race track in the UK due to noise restrictions.

Nordschleife

440 horsepower tends to assert itself.

Manthey lives with quite restrictive noise regulations on its home circuit. When I commission cars from local tuners, I mostly find exhaust noise to be a matter of choice rather than performance. Normally, I select exhaust systems with additional pipes which open under extreme conditions. This lets the cars (nominally) pass the TÜV and track noise tests, without giving up the ability to 'sound like God in his vinegar strokes'. Valve opening is controlled by the ECU. With this arrangement, you can drop out the cats at the track, switch fuel maps and have flames out the back, which is always a good party trick.

R+C

DanH

Which aftermarket exhausts have controllable exhaust flaps? I love a good engine note, but the RS is right on the limits in the UK as it is, and some of our best circuits have drive by testing monitored by the council remotely.

I know people with Manthey cars in the UK, and they are all too noisy a typical limit is 101 db static and 87db drive by at 20m, and depending on wind direction, temperature & etc the latter can be a problem even for cars on factory exhausts (friends with CSLs have had problems).

Mr. C4

And the 997 GT3 with a presumeable Manthey motor upgrade kit of say 450bhp will eat the 996 GT3 and RS for breakfast.

And no, I haven't changed my mind re. the 997 GT3 PASM and TC. I still think it's for sissies.

Ciao,

DanH

I think that really depends - after all it is the same block. Unless Porsche have some specifc magical change they've made, then presumably they are just selling the equivalent of the Manthey 410 as stock... Not to mention you are then paying the upgrade cost to the new car and then modding it at further expense whilst blowing your warranty!

I'm told the 440 has a noticeable torque improvement too, so presumably they haven't just gone for headline bhp.

Back to the 997 vs 996 the improved suspension on the 997 is based on changes made on the 996 GT3 RS, so all things being equal I assume the lighter car will win if you are modding an RS. Be interesting to see what the 997 RS comes with

Interestingly though, Herr Manthey apparently doesn't think much of the RS suspension changes on a road car. At least that is the impression I've been given by one of his fairly enthusiastic customers. I can't reconcile that though as everyone else seems to think it removes bump steer and makes it better, including some fairly handy drivers. The only downside I'm aware of is the ride height.

NJ-GT

The comparison between the 996 GT3 RS and the 997 GT3 will be an interesting one. I don't see the 997 GT3 breaking 7:43 at the Ring.

The Manthey 440 kit is worth the money for someone rebuilding a tired GT3 engine.

DanH

How much is a rebuild? 30k Euros is a lot of cash although I can see your point.

NJ-GT

I've been quoted US $25k for an engine rebuild. I would rather expend $35k on the 440 kit, but this engine is so strong that I might have to wait 5 years or more.

You can always Turbocharge, Supercharge or Nitrocharge a GT3.

DanH

Sod that, may as well buy a GT2! Aftermarket forced induction really puts me off cars, not that I really like FI anyway.

Nordschleife

Dan
I have my exhaust systems built for me, either by the race team, if they have time, or by one of the specialist builders. This is not cheap work as it involves some programming work on the ECU so we can switch maps (always specify cruise control, it gives you a way of switching programs without filling the car with aftermarket switches) and drive the exhaust throttle bodies (valves). I've just had a look at a recent invoice for work on a Biturbo and that came to EUR 15,000 including down pipes, programming, TÜV certificatiuon, uprated fuel pumps and incidentals. If you have never experienced flames out the back, you should try it some time, very liberating.
Any serious shop can do this work. In the UK I have been impressed by Larini's exhaust systems.

R+C

JAGOLDENBXSTR

As a German resident then I assume that you also know how pickey those tuners are i who they select especially Olaf at Manthey! So yes the fact that Alegra has a proven racing record and has been selected by what I percieve to be one of the best German tuners as its US agent then yes I am satisfied in my selection. In addition Alegra has gained respect from the US racing world for his work from the likes of Brumos and TRG. Again considering all of these factors I am satisfied that the work will be top notch!

Nordschleife

I know that some excellent local tuners have US agents that have asperations which are not always aligned with the people back in Germany, its good to know that Alegra is highly regarded. It is not uncommon for a US agent to supplement the headline brand's products with parts sourced elsewhere, for example. Not that anybody as reputable as Rennlist sponsors would ever do that.
R+C

DanH

NS - Larini are Italian I believe? The only knowledge I have of them is from lotus Elise systems and they don't seem to fit very well!

To be honest, I'm not wealthy enough to spend 15k euros on an engine note and a small amount of power. Be better putting it into improving my driving!

Nordschleife

Dan

Larini Systems is tucked into a Mews in North London. Phone +44 870 777 9060. My exhaust system was expensive because at one stage a bloke a bit like an organ builder got a load of different pipes and resonating boxes and proceeded to tune the exhaust note, bouncing the pulses off one bank against the other and controlling exactly how much mixing and resonating went on. When this was done they had to properly fabricate the entire system, including provisions for removing the cats. As this included down pipes for Turbo chargers as well, and all the original programming, design and development, I was lucky it wasn't more expensive.
I really believe that you could get a decent system for a reasonable amount, these days you can buy most of the throttle body bits from the VW (Bentley) parts bin.

R+C
PS you know you have done a good job with the exhaust when the development team asks you to demonstrate how fruity the whole thing is