OUCH. WHERE GOETH PORSCHE?
01-06-2005, 06:27 PM
#16
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Cupcar - Hey, I dislike SUV's too. The way I see it the SUV has been a runaway success because:
Suburban mom's get a station-wagon without the stigma of a suburban mon-mobile (station wagon or mini-van).
Mom's feel safer (many men do too) in the damn things in spite of the fact that stats show them to be the reverse.
Guys like them because they have a rugged manly image and the really big ones have almost as much space in them as a large minivan - meaning he can haul his toys around more easily although minivans are still better at carrying lumber and tools.
People with boats and or trailers like them because they can haul heavy loads and are more practical than a big pick up truck.
My boat weighs 30,000 lbs and my GT3 gets to and from the track under its own power so I don't need one and I'm glad.
Fact is Porsche made a good call business wise. With both Volks and Audi planning to attack Porsches traditional market as well as sharing the SUV platform, Porsche had to move to Porsche only stores. In these parts (we're getting 8-10 inches of snow right now) a store selling 911's and Boxster might as well close down for 6 months of the year.
Now, if I could be re-assured that Porsche will devote some attention to their sports car business and maintaining the "brand" I'd be happy.
Rgds,
Suburban mom's get a station-wagon without the stigma of a suburban mon-mobile (station wagon or mini-van).
Mom's feel safer (many men do too) in the damn things in spite of the fact that stats show them to be the reverse.
Guys like them because they have a rugged manly image and the really big ones have almost as much space in them as a large minivan - meaning he can haul his toys around more easily although minivans are still better at carrying lumber and tools.
People with boats and or trailers like them because they can haul heavy loads and are more practical than a big pick up truck.
My boat weighs 30,000 lbs and my GT3 gets to and from the track under its own power so I don't need one and I'm glad.
Fact is Porsche made a good call business wise. With both Volks and Audi planning to attack Porsches traditional market as well as sharing the SUV platform, Porsche had to move to Porsche only stores. In these parts (we're getting 8-10 inches of snow right now) a store selling 911's and Boxster might as well close down for 6 months of the year.
Now, if I could be re-assured that Porsche will devote some attention to their sports car business and maintaining the "brand" I'd be happy.
Rgds,
01-06-2005, 07:14 PM
#17
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The Cayenne is definitely not a substitute for a 911 or a Boxster but it is a heck of a SUV. I actually downsized from a Navigator to the Cayenne. The Cayenne gets better gas mileage, has better off road capabilities and is perfect for my weekend trips to Mammoth. For me, it makes sense.
01-06-2005, 08:29 PM
#18
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The Cayenne makes sense to me as well. I have my CTT for daily driving and could not imagine anything else for my daily in town driving. Approximately 475 hp, Tip tranny, Nav, CD and it is tall enough to see in traffic and while parking. In other words - perfect.
I also have my 996 TT for fun but would never want to drive it daily.
Cupcar, maybe you should drive one, you might be impressed.
Why do you have to off road to have an SUV?
I also have my 996 TT for fun but would never want to drive it daily.
Cupcar, maybe you should drive one, you might be impressed.
Why do you have to off road to have an SUV?
01-06-2005, 08:42 PM
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Truble10 - For the price of a Cayenne Turbo have you considered alternatives? There's no snow in Scottsdale (I think), how about a mercedes AMG or an M5? Just a thought ...
01-06-2005, 09:07 PM
#20
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Bob,
Had and E55 AMG and an M5. Great cars but I prefer to drive an SUV daily. No snow here but I still like SUV's. I just came to the conclusion that SUV's are big, heavy, handle and brake poorly. Until I drove the Cayenne. I was not a fan of the Cayenne when it first came out but my salesman made me drive one. Drove off that day with a Cayenne S. Traded that 3000 miles later for a Cayenne Turbo.
I know I'm in the wrong forum for positive comments about the Cayenne but you non Cayenne guys should realize they are here to stay. As long as SUV sales continue you will have to make room in your Porsche family for the Cayenne.
No, they are not a 911 or a sports car but they are really fun to drive.
Had and E55 AMG and an M5. Great cars but I prefer to drive an SUV daily. No snow here but I still like SUV's. I just came to the conclusion that SUV's are big, heavy, handle and brake poorly. Until I drove the Cayenne. I was not a fan of the Cayenne when it first came out but my salesman made me drive one. Drove off that day with a Cayenne S. Traded that 3000 miles later for a Cayenne Turbo.
I know I'm in the wrong forum for positive comments about the Cayenne but you non Cayenne guys should realize they are here to stay. As long as SUV sales continue you will have to make room in your Porsche family for the Cayenne.
No, they are not a 911 or a sports car but they are really fun to drive.
01-06-2005, 09:38 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
Truble10 - For the price of a Cayenne Turbo have you considered alternatives? There's no snow in Scottsdale (I think), how about a mercedes AMG or an M5? Just a thought ...
No sedan offers the utility of the Cayenne even if it had 500hp.
01-06-2005, 11:25 PM
#22
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I had a 1997 993 TT because it was the last "true" Porsche. Then I drove the GT3--needless to say I now own it and love it. I miss much about the 993, but this is more fun for me.
For X-mas my wife needed a replacement for her Rover which I have hated. We drove every SUV and they did little for me--or her. She finally wanted to drive the Cayenne so we did. For the first time ever, she got excited about a car! It blew me away. She ended up with the Cayenne Turbo and loves it. I have to say that I now love driving the car. Damn it is fun and quick and practical here in the Utah weather. I was down on the trucks but I would rather be in this with her than anything else!
The only problem is that she intends to go back now this summer and pick up a 996 or 997 turbo! Porsche finally won her over with that truck, which is more than the other three 911s.......smart marketing!
For X-mas my wife needed a replacement for her Rover which I have hated. We drove every SUV and they did little for me--or her. She finally wanted to drive the Cayenne so we did. For the first time ever, she got excited about a car! It blew me away. She ended up with the Cayenne Turbo and loves it. I have to say that I now love driving the car. Damn it is fun and quick and practical here in the Utah weather. I was down on the trucks but I would rather be in this with her than anything else!
The only problem is that she intends to go back now this summer and pick up a 996 or 997 turbo! Porsche finally won her over with that truck, which is more than the other three 911s.......smart marketing!
01-07-2005, 12:44 AM
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The Cayenne TT is superb, ever autcross one?, I did at the PDE and then bought it.
For reference, the R32 is the daily driver, the GT3 and the GT3 are for my dreams and occasional track days.
Drove the Cayenne TT in the heavy rain here and think it is absolutely wonderful (might steal it from my wife and put here in a Range Rover (room for the dogs she wants, it's that or a Tundra).
If I could have only one car it would be a Cayenne TT.
Yes, I've had the M5, E500 and Carrera TT, they're all somewhat lacking and represent a compromise of sorts.
For reference, the R32 is the daily driver, the GT3 and the GT3 are for my dreams and occasional track days.
Drove the Cayenne TT in the heavy rain here and think it is absolutely wonderful (might steal it from my wife and put here in a Range Rover (room for the dogs she wants, it's that or a Tundra).
If I could have only one car it would be a Cayenne TT.
Yes, I've had the M5, E500 and Carrera TT, they're all somewhat lacking and represent a compromise of sorts.
01-07-2005, 01:08 AM
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SUVs will be commonly viewed the same way old stationwagons with the wood paneling and those stupid finned cars from the 50's are viewed today - retarded. Sadly Porsche is selling it's history and all those racing victories for a piece of that future...
01-07-2005, 01:14 AM
#25
IMHO, the Pepper is the best execution of the SUV any company has ever done. I was one of the 'purists' totally opposed to the idea, but they did it very, very well. There is something about building what people want to buy, especially if if finances another few years of Le Mans domination, right PAG ?
Robin
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01-07-2005, 01:30 AM
#26
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I hope I havn't offended to many, I really do accept other's choices but it is not like me to not state my opinion, particularly when I don't understand. And yes, it was a good business decision for the time being at least for Porsche to build SUV's.
My main beef with SUV's is that I feel they are a threat to me in a smaller car always noting that their bumper is at my head level-I hope I never get hit in the side by one. I also can't stand to have one in front of me since I can't see around them or through them.
As for their height advantage, it's kind of like being at a ball game, everyone has to stand up to see what's going on because the person in front of them is standing. If we all sat down we could see just as much. Where does it all stop, do we all buy Peterbilts??
I doubt I would ever have fun driving one except for the initial novelty of something so big going so fast which for me would wear off fast.
Having said that, I can see the utility of an SUV for some applications, however the *perception* of safety has me perplexed, particularly when processed in the female computer.
Two stories:
A person I work with consulted me as the "Porsche expert" about a Cayenne for his wife. I recommended one to him as probably the best SUV out there if you are going to buy one. He bought the Cayenne and a couple of months later I noted he was driving it to work. I asked if he bought one for himself as well as his wife and he said: "no, I had to buy my wife a Land Rover because she felt safer driving it rather than the Cayenne"!!!! Go figure.
Another associate, who owns a 356 Porsche he inherited, has a wife who drives a Range Rover(edit: I found that it's actually a Toyota Land Cruiser, they are all the same to me) because she "feels safe" in it. She, however, is reluctant to let their children ride in the 356 because she feels it is not safe with no airbags and it is "so small". She will however allow them to ride in their non-airbag Jeep Wrangler because she feels it is "safe". I have driven the Wrangler and would be reluctant to try any evasive maneuver in it since it would probably roll in a heartbeat. Also the brakes are junk compared to the 356. Go figure.
My main beef with SUV's is that I feel they are a threat to me in a smaller car always noting that their bumper is at my head level-I hope I never get hit in the side by one. I also can't stand to have one in front of me since I can't see around them or through them.
As for their height advantage, it's kind of like being at a ball game, everyone has to stand up to see what's going on because the person in front of them is standing. If we all sat down we could see just as much. Where does it all stop, do we all buy Peterbilts??
I doubt I would ever have fun driving one except for the initial novelty of something so big going so fast which for me would wear off fast.
Having said that, I can see the utility of an SUV for some applications, however the *perception* of safety has me perplexed, particularly when processed in the female computer.
Two stories:
A person I work with consulted me as the "Porsche expert" about a Cayenne for his wife. I recommended one to him as probably the best SUV out there if you are going to buy one. He bought the Cayenne and a couple of months later I noted he was driving it to work. I asked if he bought one for himself as well as his wife and he said: "no, I had to buy my wife a Land Rover because she felt safer driving it rather than the Cayenne"!!!! Go figure.
Another associate, who owns a 356 Porsche he inherited, has a wife who drives a Range Rover(edit: I found that it's actually a Toyota Land Cruiser, they are all the same to me) because she "feels safe" in it. She, however, is reluctant to let their children ride in the 356 because she feels it is not safe with no airbags and it is "so small". She will however allow them to ride in their non-airbag Jeep Wrangler because she feels it is "safe". I have driven the Wrangler and would be reluctant to try any evasive maneuver in it since it would probably roll in a heartbeat. Also the brakes are junk compared to the 356. Go figure.
Last edited by Cupcar; 01-07-2005 at 10:58 PM.
01-07-2005, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MetalSolid
SUVs will be commonly viewed the same way old stationwagons with the wood paneling and those stupid finned cars from the 50's are viewed today - retarded.
Do you really think Porsche would be able to survive selling a handful of GT's and 911's? It's the Boxster and now the Cayenne that will allow Porsche to offer focused driver's cars like your GT3.
01-07-2005, 04:41 AM
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How strange, so called Porsche enthusiasts will happily spend more on their commuter Cayennes than they will on their fun Porsche. I don't need a 450bhp, 9mpg SUV just so I can sit in traffic.
Better Porsche die a hero than live a coward.
Originally Posted by adsc4s
Do you really think Porsche would be able to survive selling a handful of GT's and 911's? It's the Boxster and now the Cayenne that will allow Porsche to offer focused driver's cars like your GT3.
01-07-2005, 12:16 PM
#29
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Wonderful commemts and thoughts all......
I know I'm in the wrong forum for positive comments about the Cayenne
I would say not, there are a lot of positive comments here, and having driven, and been driven in one at the PDE I too think it is an excellent execution of the concept.
As for their height advantage, it's kind of like being at a ball game, everyone has to stand up to see what's going on because the person in front of them is standing. If we all sat down we could see just as much. Where does it all stop, do we all buy Peterbilts??
I'm so with you here, I honestly feel they should be banned from all cities and urban areas! As a proud Prius owner these metal monsters driven by girls doing their make up in the mirror while talking on the cell phone and stroking the leaping lapdog make me very nervous.
Better Porsche die a hero than live a coward
better it not die at all, and stay fiscally boyant enough to keep making a better and better toy for us!
I know I'm in the wrong forum for positive comments about the Cayenne
I would say not, there are a lot of positive comments here, and having driven, and been driven in one at the PDE I too think it is an excellent execution of the concept.
As for their height advantage, it's kind of like being at a ball game, everyone has to stand up to see what's going on because the person in front of them is standing. If we all sat down we could see just as much. Where does it all stop, do we all buy Peterbilts??
I'm so with you here, I honestly feel they should be banned from all cities and urban areas! As a proud Prius owner these metal monsters driven by girls doing their make up in the mirror while talking on the cell phone and stroking the leaping lapdog make me very nervous.
Better Porsche die a hero than live a coward
better it not die at all, and stay fiscally boyant enough to keep making a better and better toy for us!
01-07-2005, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MetalSolid
How strange, so called Porsche enthusiasts will happily spend more on their commuter Cayennes than they will on their fun Porsche.
Don't generalize!