OUCH. WHERE GOETH PORSCHE?
01-07-2005, 11:56 PM
#47
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I have to agree with you guys as well. My Wife is also from Europe and she could have had ANY car she wanted.
She picked a Volvo C70. Its a great car, (but getting a little long in the tooth), we are having a difficult time, (they discontinued the C70) picking out a new car. I can't seem to get her into anything higher than a c230 sport. She hates big cars and hates flashy, (but loves the Astin Martin Vanqish, go figure) cars even more. I would put her in a Toyota, but I really want her in something a bit more substantial, something that can absorb the impact of an SUV.
I am at a loss for now. Perhapse she will find somthing in 2006 model year that she likes.
She picked a Volvo C70. Its a great car, (but getting a little long in the tooth), we are having a difficult time, (they discontinued the C70) picking out a new car. I can't seem to get her into anything higher than a c230 sport. She hates big cars and hates flashy, (but loves the Astin Martin Vanqish, go figure) cars even more. I would put her in a Toyota, but I really want her in something a bit more substantial, something that can absorb the impact of an SUV.
I am at a loss for now. Perhapse she will find somthing in 2006 model year that she likes.
01-08-2005, 01:02 AM
#48
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So European human nature is different,
Haute Couture came from where?:
Swiss Watches?, (Patek Phillipe etc.)
Grand Architecture? (Versailles, Buckingham Palace, the Vatican)
The Roman Empire?
These all existed before there were American or Asian or Middle Eastern markets,
O ...I get it, these were created by ex-patriates living there.
It's a European thing to put down the US, and it's an American thing to play into their hands!
The Europeans “who hate waste and exhibition of wealth” are most likely those who can't afford it. The "Merc" is still a status symbol when someone makes it there, just like here. Like I said Human Nature is universal.
Now in Europe it may be impolite to talk about wealth, but showing it is another matterl
I've lived and worked in Europe for a great part of my life so if you haven't lived there do a little more research. the Europeans love to act as if they are above it all (and live under the protection of the US (all the while hating them because of it))... so they love the perpetuation of these “myths”.
There are many different Europes, but today even the poor European countries aspire to be in the Common Market to improve their lot.
Just look at recent examples of success and the conspicuous consumption in the newly “enriched” European Countries, i.e. Ireland to see what’s really happening; and what people do?.
Ever been to Luxembourg?
Get real!
Haute Couture came from where?:
Swiss Watches?, (Patek Phillipe etc.)
Grand Architecture? (Versailles, Buckingham Palace, the Vatican)
The Roman Empire?
These all existed before there were American or Asian or Middle Eastern markets,
O ...I get it, these were created by ex-patriates living there.
It's a European thing to put down the US, and it's an American thing to play into their hands!
The Europeans “who hate waste and exhibition of wealth” are most likely those who can't afford it. The "Merc" is still a status symbol when someone makes it there, just like here. Like I said Human Nature is universal.
Now in Europe it may be impolite to talk about wealth, but showing it is another matterl
I've lived and worked in Europe for a great part of my life so if you haven't lived there do a little more research. the Europeans love to act as if they are above it all (and live under the protection of the US (all the while hating them because of it))... so they love the perpetuation of these “myths”.
There are many different Europes, but today even the poor European countries aspire to be in the Common Market to improve their lot.
Just look at recent examples of success and the conspicuous consumption in the newly “enriched” European Countries, i.e. Ireland to see what’s really happening; and what people do?.
Ever been to Luxembourg?
Get real!
01-08-2005, 01:33 AM
#49
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Oh,
For the record, I was born, raised, lived in, and ran a Company in Central Europe for many years (almost 25).
I think I understand the culture and the anti-american sentiment (read jealousy) very well.
For the record, I was born, raised, lived in, and ran a Company in Central Europe for many years (almost 25).
I think I understand the culture and the anti-american sentiment (read jealousy) very well.
01-08-2005, 02:19 PM
#50
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Now in Europe it may be impolite to talk about wealth, but showing it is another matterl
I can say that as someone born and raised in England, and who has lived in both Milan and Paris in the fashion world you are a bit off base. There is nothing more shameful than being percieved as 'Nouveau Riche', and the car you drive is the bigest key to your class. I know several millionairs who drive bland station wagons, or mid level saloons so as not to attract the wrong kind of attention, even when they're going to the private airport to take the Gulfstream for a spin. It may be different on the other side of Europe, but it's a big place with far more cross border nuances than the US, thus I think it is pretty dangerous to generalize, but based on my own experience I must agree with the others here.
I can say that as someone born and raised in England, and who has lived in both Milan and Paris in the fashion world you are a bit off base. There is nothing more shameful than being percieved as 'Nouveau Riche', and the car you drive is the bigest key to your class. I know several millionairs who drive bland station wagons, or mid level saloons so as not to attract the wrong kind of attention, even when they're going to the private airport to take the Gulfstream for a spin. It may be different on the other side of Europe, but it's a big place with far more cross border nuances than the US, thus I think it is pretty dangerous to generalize, but based on my own experience I must agree with the others here.
01-08-2005, 03:25 PM
#52
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Hey, I live in the land of Nouveau now, no one here gives me dirty looks in a Porsche!!
My Euro roots die hard, hence the Prius!
(and ofcorse the inability of the MPSC's in the rain!!)
My Euro roots die hard, hence the Prius!
(and ofcorse the inability of the MPSC's in the rain!!)
01-08-2005, 03:32 PM
#53
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this shouldn't even be a question of european vs. american sentiments.
the real issue is that americans will not be able to continue the lifestyle that we've grown accustomed to for very long. unless the bush administration is able to secure additional oil reserves outside of the US and Iraq, 'peak oil' will eventually catch up with us.
europeans have lived with high oil prices for longer than we have, and as a result, their culture views SUV's and huge luxury cars differently. i assume americans will follow suit in time.
but then again, i would also assume that america would not prefer tax cuts when the nation is in such tremendous debt (a increasingly large portion of which is owned by China, who could now cripple our economy by simply calling in our debt). the US is a truly a great nation, but so was the USSR. and it was not conflict (war, terrorism) that brought an end to the soviets, it was economic disaster.
please, pardon my rant.
the real issue is that americans will not be able to continue the lifestyle that we've grown accustomed to for very long. unless the bush administration is able to secure additional oil reserves outside of the US and Iraq, 'peak oil' will eventually catch up with us.
europeans have lived with high oil prices for longer than we have, and as a result, their culture views SUV's and huge luxury cars differently. i assume americans will follow suit in time.
but then again, i would also assume that america would not prefer tax cuts when the nation is in such tremendous debt (a increasingly large portion of which is owned by China, who could now cripple our economy by simply calling in our debt). the US is a truly a great nation, but so was the USSR. and it was not conflict (war, terrorism) that brought an end to the soviets, it was economic disaster.
please, pardon my rant.
01-08-2005, 03:37 PM
#54
It is the content of a person’s character and actions that speak louder than blue blood or a new found windfall. I can appreciate the exclusivity of a fine automobile or time piece as well as disposable income. The outward appearance of a wealth and sophistication is just that. I really don’t give a sh*t where somebody is from nor their family history. If they are asses and they drive a GT, they are just asses in a nice car. And the pretentiousness of nouveau riche or old money is the same. The only claim maybe the precedent of wealth.
I am amazed the there is still the argument of which country/countrymen is more sophisticated and for how long. Who cares? I have met Americans with tons of cash who throw it around like **** in a urinal and I have met Europeans who would not talk to the “lesser” because they were “lesser”. I would consider both of these people to be classless.
With financing the way it is, who really knows who is what they claim to be.
Is a Porsche a Porsche? I don’t own one, I own an Audi S4 avant, a very nice Volkswagen (but it is an Audi right?).
Cheers!
(is it ok that i post here? my car is german......
)
I am amazed the there is still the argument of which country/countrymen is more sophisticated and for how long. Who cares? I have met Americans with tons of cash who throw it around like **** in a urinal and I have met Europeans who would not talk to the “lesser” because they were “lesser”. I would consider both of these people to be classless.
With financing the way it is, who really knows who is what they claim to be.
Is a Porsche a Porsche? I don’t own one, I own an Audi S4 avant, a very nice Volkswagen (but it is an Audi right?).
Cheers!
(is it ok that i post here? my car is german......
)
01-08-2005, 04:49 PM
#56
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Yes we have!
But since we're off it.
Doesn't it excite a little curiousity why some might Europeans want to hide their wealth? Is it really because they have so much more of an enlightened and sophisticated culture?
Now, I can think of (and have dealt with) a myriad of other practical reasons, but I'll leave it to the fertile imaginations
I apologize for straying and any offense caused, but I do get sick and tired of the European high mindedness and superior attitudes, often it's a thin veneer for hypocracy (IMO and experience).
But since we're off it.
Doesn't it excite a little curiousity why some might Europeans want to hide their wealth? Is it really because they have so much more of an enlightened and sophisticated culture?
Now, I can think of (and have dealt with) a myriad of other practical reasons, but I'll leave it to the fertile imaginations
I apologize for straying and any offense caused, but I do get sick and tired of the European high mindedness and superior attitudes, often it's a thin veneer for hypocracy (IMO and experience).
01-08-2005, 06:08 PM
#57
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Doesn't it excite a little curiousity why some might Europeans want to hide their wealth?
No, not really, it's just a reflection of the divided and snobish class system over there, and needing to appear to be acting correctly. I'd say it's just convention, nothing more.
No, not really, it's just a reflection of the divided and snobish class system over there, and needing to appear to be acting correctly. I'd say it's just convention, nothing more.
01-09-2005, 07:02 PM
#58
Originally Posted by ljd-924SE
but then again, i would also assume that america would not prefer tax cuts when the nation is in such tremendous debt (a increasingly large portion of which is owned by China, who could now cripple our economy by simply calling in our debt). the US is a truly a great nation, but so was the USSR. and it was not conflict (war, terrorism) that brought an end to the soviets, it was economic disaster.
You want something to fret over, go look at the situation the Japanese are in...
Getting way too off topic, sorry.
01-09-2005, 07:51 PM
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How is it that the Chinese (or whoever) would "call in our debt"?
Forgive me furthering the meander, but lets just say that they see us over extended militarily, and Taiwan is a cherry they've been looking to pluck for a long time. In that short sighted scenario maybe a distraught dollar could work for them.
However as the largest nation of only children come of age I think that we'll see quite a different scenario develop. The greatest ancient trading nation of earth will return to it's former self, and the qualities so often associated with only children may well become the nature of the nation. The fact they own our debt, thus in effect own us, won't be lost on the new power generation as they complete their legal, business and finance studies that the slowly opening system is encouraging.
My guess is it'll be a very enjoyable and profitable future for all, and maybe all the investment that Japan was pouring into the US in the '80's to be replaced by a new wave of very smart Chinese money before too long.
Forgive me furthering the meander, but lets just say that they see us over extended militarily, and Taiwan is a cherry they've been looking to pluck for a long time. In that short sighted scenario maybe a distraught dollar could work for them.
However as the largest nation of only children come of age I think that we'll see quite a different scenario develop. The greatest ancient trading nation of earth will return to it's former self, and the qualities so often associated with only children may well become the nature of the nation. The fact they own our debt, thus in effect own us, won't be lost on the new power generation as they complete their legal, business and finance studies that the slowly opening system is encouraging.
My guess is it'll be a very enjoyable and profitable future for all, and maybe all the investment that Japan was pouring into the US in the '80's to be replaced by a new wave of very smart Chinese money before too long.
01-09-2005, 08:39 PM
#60
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Read the latest Road and Track article on Chinese automobile use expansion. Very interesting! Where is the oil going to come from to run our toys...and their toys too?