MJones

It's configuration is unique and has worked for the past 50 years...

The big ball fun is going flat from turn 6 thru 9

And your lap times are?

Greg Fishman

McFly.
Hello? All EJ did was offer up an opinion from a friend or two of his that has a lot of track time there. Isn't that why you were posting? To get other opinions?
I don't see where EJ ever attacked you or called you names. Of course you did that to him immediately. Some could argue that your original post wasn't very well thought out or positive either, couldn't they?

macfly

And your lap times are?
I've done a 1:37 once, but more usually I'm in the 1:40-2 range in a stock GT3.
I have been given rides at 1:33 in a GT3 and 1:24 in a Radical, both of which were wonderfully illuminating, and show one what is possible there.
Every time I'm at the track (14 times so far this year) I hear somebody bemoan it's very simplified layout, which got me thinking, and thus I started the thread, to see what others who spend a lot of time there might suggest.

It was simply an open invitation to see what other's would do to improve upon it if they curently find it a little dull. I thought about it based on the real estate available, and how to make it fun to drive, I simply expected others to do the same. Why it became a 'fighting talk thread' beats me.

You are obviously in the camp that still finds it thrilling, and thus have no desire to see any changes.
Good to know, maybe I should have started the thread as a poll, and then we'd see how many folks are really serious about changing it up there, and how many love it just the way it is. Hindsight is always 20/20!

macfly

Some could argue that your original post wasn't very well thought out or positive either, couldn't they?
Greg, indeed, I could have phrased it better, but there was no insult implied or intended to WSIR or those who love it the way it is. I hear many folks say they wish it was a little more interesting, so it got me thinking to see what anyone would do to improve on it. That's all!
I took the tone of EJ's post to be yet another put down, which is all I've ever got from him, so I replied in kind. If you would care to see the long tirade of incredibly rude and insulting PM's I have from EJ I'll post them here, and then you will understand why I have a little bit of a hair trigger when it comes to this particular poster.

Chris Aber-Rooney

(Oh and finally, no you're not advocating removing 6&7, but you might as well with your fancy redesign. I mean it sure made the 914 guy happy to know he could beat your fancy GT3 with your new layout. But I guess that is your intent - make the track much slower and easier so you dont get as scared.)

Sorry to get mixed up in any negativity but until I learn to drive my new GT3 "the 914 guy" is already faster than a stock GT3, (1:33) and I am not that fast of a driver compared to some and it wouldn't be bad to have a changeable track like Button Willow does.

Also nothing like going thru turn 8 full out, late braking by lightly tapping the brakes and smoking thru turn nine late apex and hoping to keep it on the track full speed!
Willow Springs "The fastest Road in the West"
Let's keep it nice !

http://home.earthlink.net/~aberooney/

DJ

I don't want to get in the middle of any pissing match, but in the GT3, yes, I can see why you'd think that speed through T8 would be no big deal. As you get more seat time at Willow, and you learn to get through T5 faster, you'll be into T8 ~10 mph faster than you are now. That will make it a little more exciting. If that's still too boring for you, just add a little of Willow's late afternoon wind (50 mph gusts).


I must be missing something here... You are obviously not flat from turn-in at T5 all the down to the braking zone for T1, but that's what it appears you are saying. "Flat through 9" means no lift or braking for 8 or 9. I don't think it would be physically possible for a GT3 to do that (even with slicks, and a RSR wing).

macfly

As soon as you turn into the apex of 9 are you not full on the gas?
When are you going on the gas there?

E. J. - 993 Alumni

PM messages from a year ago aside (when Macfluffy called me every racist name in the book), it is plainly obvious for all 'level headed' members here on the GT3/2 forum to see that I did not insult Macfluffy in the least bit - as Greg has pointed out. MacFluffy asked for opinions, and he didn't like those I relayed from guys with tons more time there than most. So he went on and attacked - as he has so often done.

Most sane people know that the majority of arguments are never one sided, it takes two to tango. Unfortunately, MacFluffy is not able to get over the past (like most liberals) so he attacks for no reason. And he continues to attack in post after post.

Hey MacFluffy, you don't like the message? So in typical liberal fashion you shoot the messenger.

Hello Mr. Watt. While its not exactly comforting to know we are so alike in one manner, it is comforting to know that we are both big enough to get past it. Anyway, I'm just playing nice so I can drove your CS at the track. I'll trade you a day in my race car in my avatar for yours?

DJ

I think that maybe you're mis-defining the term "flat". Flat does not merely mean foot to the floor. It means not lifting your foot from the floor before, during or after the turn. "Flat through 9" implies that you never lift (nor brake) as you approach turn 9. What you are doing is NOT going "flat through 9", and trust me, there is a WORLD of difference between what you're doing, and actually going "flat through 9".

This is not a knock on you, as I believe it's impossible to do in a stock GT3. I doubt that it would be possible in one that was highly modified. It's just that you (inadvertantly) indicated that you were doing the impossible...

fahren affair

i'm at the limit of adhesion entering t9 and balancing the car with the gas before the apex to 9. anyone who says they can drive their car flat thought t9--on street tires no less--is FOS. t8/9 will make a man of anyone who tries to take it flat. my vote is to keep willow the way it is. the mickey-mouse track is next door at 'streets'.

DJ

What does FOS mean?

Viken

Full of ****?

macfly

i'm at the limit of adhesion entering t9 and balancing the car with the gas before the apex to 9
So, to repeat the question, when are you full on the gas?
As soon as I turn into the apex I am, but maybe you are entering it faster if you aren't full on the gas till after the apex?

DJ

In a GT3, you're going to have to brake before turn 9, and shift down one gear. How fast you're going before you brake, how much you brake, when and how hard you get on the throttle are all variables that will be difficult, if not impossible to describe unless you're comparing data from onboard acquisistion. It's usually most accurate (from a discussion standpoint) to talk about specific things like: 1) what is the highest speed you see before braking for T9; 2) what is your speed *at* the apex of T9; 3) what is your exit speed when the car reaches the left *edge* of the track; 4) what is your lap time. From those four things, you can get a much clearer picture of who's doing what than just asking who's flat where?

I've only got a few laps at Willow in a GT3 (someone else's car), so we were just cruising, never used full throttle, never revved higher than 6,000 rpms. We weren't pushing it, so I wasn't really paying attention to the cornering speeds (only speed I remember was a max of 140mph before T1). Lap times ~1:38. In my 993 C4S, it would go 1:31 (stock engine and body work).

Willow (as others have said) is a momentum track, so you can't tell how fast you are by looking at where you're at full throttle. The key is not to "accelerate as much as possible", but instead to "slow as little as possible".

4 Kurves

Hey DJ - I remember that day. In Jack's car with your head on the roof!

I'm the guy who came up to at the SV event at SOW the Friday before last. I have a white GT-3.

Glad to see you active here on this board - your experience and comments are well appreciated.

-Kevin