GT3 Brake Pads for Track
08-24-2004, 08:06 AM
#17
Racer
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Getting back to my original quesiton about the stock brakes, it sounds like some mushiness and loss of braking feel that can be expected. That's not too surprising. Is it pad fad, brake fluid boiling or brake line expansion? From what it sounds like, it's more likely a brake fluid/brake line issue that could be cured pretty easily with some stainless lines, better fluid and air ducted to the rotors.
As for rotor life, sounds like they don't last particularly long. Are the RS19s any easier on rotors?
Also, are the RS 19s streetable?
As for rotor life, sounds like they don't last particularly long. Are the RS19s any easier on rotors?
Also, are the RS 19s streetable?
08-24-2004, 12:18 PM
#18
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The RS-19's are very streetable, just a little dull on the first few applications backing out of the garage, and going down the street.
I didn't do the lines, but the fluids did make a big difference. I cannot tell you if my fluid was a bit off, but the change was very noticeable when I went to the Brembo HT Fluid.
Based on what I learnt/felt at the PDE in Barber there is nothing wrong with the OEM kit as such. The RS-19s just feel better on the track, especially if you like doing long sessions at private days. I love being on the track for a hour at a time, fulfils my Le Mans fantasy, and the RS-19's never go off, and I have had no fluid boil either.
I made both swaps at the same time to get better feel and eliminate the sponginess I was getting when the brakes got hot at the track, and I've succeded. I am very happy with the way the car stops, and feels doing it. Disc life seems to be about 6,500 miles based on my experience so far.
I didn't do the lines, but the fluids did make a big difference. I cannot tell you if my fluid was a bit off, but the change was very noticeable when I went to the Brembo HT Fluid.
Based on what I learnt/felt at the PDE in Barber there is nothing wrong with the OEM kit as such. The RS-19s just feel better on the track, especially if you like doing long sessions at private days. I love being on the track for a hour at a time, fulfils my Le Mans fantasy, and the RS-19's never go off, and I have had no fluid boil either.
I made both swaps at the same time to get better feel and eliminate the sponginess I was getting when the brakes got hot at the track, and I've succeded. I am very happy with the way the car stops, and feels doing it. Disc life seems to be about 6,500 miles based on my experience so far.
08-26-2004, 12:52 AM
#19
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I concur with Macfly - the RS-19's are very streetable. I live in a part of the world with high ambient temps so I don't really face cold temp issues. That said, the RS-19s do feel better after a few pedal applications in the morning, but clearly have better low temp friction characteristics than the Pagid Oranges. The improved bite and feel on track vs. the OEM yellows is very real. I've tried almost the entire Pagid performance range and am sticking with the RS-19s. I run these pads in combination with steel lines and Castrol SRF and have never encountered any fade issues.
08-31-2004, 04:08 PM
#20
Former Vendor
Indeed the stock pads are 100% not RS19 pads. According to my customers, they are apparently a P90 OE compound - the best choice for track use - by far - are the RS19 Pagid yellows.
I've had 10 people buy RS19s and 1 buy the RS4-4 (Pagid Oranges, why?? not a good choice)
The RS19s are quite noisy for street use - BUT just use the stick-on foil dealies found at any auto parts store...
Hope this substantiates some concerns and questions
Craig
Rennstore
I've had 10 people buy RS19s and 1 buy the RS4-4 (Pagid Oranges, why?? not a good choice)
The RS19s are quite noisy for street use - BUT just use the stick-on foil dealies found at any auto parts store...
Hope this substantiates some concerns and questions
Craig
Rennstore
09-02-2004, 12:37 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
I run a slightly different animal in a std 996 C2. I have baby brakes. My experience is that the RS19 Front RS14 rear combination is the best setup. This adds some rear bias that these cars can use. The larger brakes on the GT3 do not warrant needing RS14 on the front. The RS19 should give better modulatuion. SRF is a big plus and I would not run anything else. The ducts are a must, if (when) you wreck them... you MUST replace them. As for PFC, I tried them once and ended up backwards in a sand trap at Summit Point 3 feet from the wall. Thankfully the damage was superficial, but still cost me a few grand. The Pagid RS pads have a ceramic layer between the metal and the pad material which greatly reduces heat transfer.
09-02-2004, 02:18 PM
#24
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I am happy with Pagid RS 14 pads on the front, and higher friction RS 15 pads on the rear. Rotors are doing great. These pads squeak a lot when you use the brakes, but are quiet when just driving. And, they seem to stop just fine cold on the street.
09-03-2004, 05:22 AM
#25
Three Wheelin'
PatMurphy,
I plan on doing the same (RS-F14/R15)when there is a replacement on the rear on the PCCB equipped cars.....for now it's RS-14 on the front......The Corvette guys used these with great success......
Ed Newman,
PFC 01 are really hard on rotors ...brake dust is CRAZY.....i liked them alot.....but i cannot afford rotors that often.. but i did not try them with an AP or Brembo rotor.........the RS-14 I heard are a little less aggressive.
I plan on doing the same (RS-F14/R15)when there is a replacement on the rear on the PCCB equipped cars.....for now it's RS-14 on the front......The Corvette guys used these with great success......
Ed Newman,
PFC 01 are really hard on rotors ...brake dust is CRAZY.....i liked them alot.....but i cannot afford rotors that often.. but i did not try them with an AP or Brembo rotor.........the RS-14 I heard are a little less aggressive.
09-04-2004, 04:35 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Hmmm. Why are Pagid RS4-4 bad? I've always used them. Yes, when cold, they have no bite, and squeal like the schoolbus. I've noticed a litle bit of mushiness, but that could be the lines. I've never had the fluid boil (Motul RBF 600), but am certainly curious about wanting a bit more initial bite and that rock hard feel (the modulation is fine with the Pagids, but they don't feel great).
I have noticed cracking on the OE rotors, so I'm looking for slotted alternatives, and maybe a better pad choice.
I'm running RS4-4 on front and back. Hmmmmmmm.
I have noticed cracking on the OE rotors, so I'm looking for slotted alternatives, and maybe a better pad choice.
I'm running RS4-4 on front and back. Hmmmmmmm.
09-04-2004, 11:35 PM
#27
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I haven't had any issues (fade or wear) with the stock setup but I'm sure switching to the RS19 will be an improvement. I'm going to wear out my Pilots first.
09-14-2004, 05:59 PM
#29
Former Vendor
RS19s are much, much better than the Oranges - once you've had yellow, you won't go back :-)
I like the combo of Yellow in front and Black in the back on anti-lock brake cars - MANY of my customers run this combo.
I like the combo of Yellow in front and Black in the back on anti-lock brake cars - MANY of my customers run this combo.
09-14-2004, 06:24 PM
#30
Still plays with cars.
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Racer63 -
You have asked interesting questions.
Tires: The stickiest streetable dry conditions tire for the GT3 is the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (MPSC). It is very nasty in the wet though and if rain is something you see at or en route to the track I would avoid them unless you plan to switch rims and tires on damp days.
Pirelli P0 Corsa - My personal favorite. Less dry grip than the MPSC but it is usable in the wet and safe to drive home (carefully) through the rain. It also lasts longer than the MPSC.
Toyo RA1 - No personal experience but it should be similar to the Corsa.
Dunlop SS Race - a new tire and offered at a VERY attractive price from Tire Rack. Not as grippy as the Corsa or MPSC but very versatile. These are what I use as my daily drive tires and on track if it's wet.
Brakes: Everyone I know who tracks a GT3 with the OEM rotors and the OEM yellow "sport" brake pads has suffered premature rotor failure. The pads work well but require a lengthy break in period. Failure to break them in results in an overheated (toasted) pad which will ruin the rotors. They are not suitable for track use in my opinion.
Pagid RS-19 - this is an endurance racing pad which is used on Porsche racers at Le Mans. Teams using them reported that the pads and equally important the rotors lasted the full 24 hours.
They have less initial "bite" than some other race pads although they are far better than the OEM pads your car will come with. They have superior modulation i.e. for a constant pedal pressure you get a constant rate of deceleration. Some pads bite more as they heat up forcing you to release the brake pressure if you want to avoid overbraking. I personally hate that. The RS-19 also have superb release, they don't get "sticky" and as you release the brakes they come off cleanly with no tendency to hold on longer than you want.
On the street they are acceptable. In normal street driving you would not know you had changed pads. If you are forced to do emergency braking (panic stop) with cold brakes, the stopping distance will be longer than with the OEM pads. On the race track, you will notice the same thing, so use your warm up lap as it was intended.
I use them for street and track and I am perfectly happy with them.
Noise: Race pads tend to squeal a lot. The RS-19's in my car make very little noise, the odd squeak now and then. When I installed them I file a bevel on the edge of thepads where they touch the rotor - this is a five minute job since a single swipe of the file is all it takes. I use a dab of hi temp anti seize on the backing plates and use the anti squeal shims that come with the car.
The Rs-19 front pads have a notch for the brake wear sensor the rears do not.
Cautionary Note: On my wife's GT3 I could not get the rear pads to fit in the calipers with the anti squeal shims (the round spring like things that plug into the pistons themselves. With new rotors and new pads I didn't have enough clearance. I put the anti squeal shims aside (no danger there by the way) and had to wait til she had done four track days before I could put them in. UNtil I could fit them back on her brakes squealed.
Note I had no such problem on my GT3 or my GT2 (now fitted with GT3 cast iron rotors). I don't know if her pads were thicker than usual or perhaps it is her rotors.
Hope this helps ...
Regards,
You have asked interesting questions.
Tires: The stickiest streetable dry conditions tire for the GT3 is the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (MPSC). It is very nasty in the wet though and if rain is something you see at or en route to the track I would avoid them unless you plan to switch rims and tires on damp days.
Pirelli P0 Corsa - My personal favorite. Less dry grip than the MPSC but it is usable in the wet and safe to drive home (carefully) through the rain. It also lasts longer than the MPSC.
Toyo RA1 - No personal experience but it should be similar to the Corsa.
Dunlop SS Race - a new tire and offered at a VERY attractive price from Tire Rack. Not as grippy as the Corsa or MPSC but very versatile. These are what I use as my daily drive tires and on track if it's wet.
Brakes: Everyone I know who tracks a GT3 with the OEM rotors and the OEM yellow "sport" brake pads has suffered premature rotor failure. The pads work well but require a lengthy break in period. Failure to break them in results in an overheated (toasted) pad which will ruin the rotors. They are not suitable for track use in my opinion.
Pagid RS-19 - this is an endurance racing pad which is used on Porsche racers at Le Mans. Teams using them reported that the pads and equally important the rotors lasted the full 24 hours.
They have less initial "bite" than some other race pads although they are far better than the OEM pads your car will come with. They have superior modulation i.e. for a constant pedal pressure you get a constant rate of deceleration. Some pads bite more as they heat up forcing you to release the brake pressure if you want to avoid overbraking. I personally hate that. The RS-19 also have superb release, they don't get "sticky" and as you release the brakes they come off cleanly with no tendency to hold on longer than you want.
On the street they are acceptable. In normal street driving you would not know you had changed pads. If you are forced to do emergency braking (panic stop) with cold brakes, the stopping distance will be longer than with the OEM pads. On the race track, you will notice the same thing, so use your warm up lap as it was intended.
I use them for street and track and I am perfectly happy with them.
Noise: Race pads tend to squeal a lot. The RS-19's in my car make very little noise, the odd squeak now and then. When I installed them I file a bevel on the edge of thepads where they touch the rotor - this is a five minute job since a single swipe of the file is all it takes. I use a dab of hi temp anti seize on the backing plates and use the anti squeal shims that come with the car.
The Rs-19 front pads have a notch for the brake wear sensor the rears do not.
Cautionary Note: On my wife's GT3 I could not get the rear pads to fit in the calipers with the anti squeal shims (the round spring like things that plug into the pistons themselves. With new rotors and new pads I didn't have enough clearance. I put the anti squeal shims aside (no danger there by the way) and had to wait til she had done four track days before I could put them in. UNtil I could fit them back on her brakes squealed.
Note I had no such problem on my GT3 or my GT2 (now fitted with GT3 cast iron rotors). I don't know if her pads were thicker than usual or perhaps it is her rotors.
Hope this helps ...
Regards,