996FLT6

Hi there and good day to all. After reading quite a few articles with reference to the 997 saying that the 997 has a improved drag coeffcient versus the 996. The article(forgot which one) said that the front windshield is made more flush to roof and windshield which I am assuming that they improved the design of the seals. Since they stated that the only part taken from the 996 was the roof portion for the 997 which I'm assuming that its from the bottom of A/B pillar up. Looking at photos it looks like seals are pretty much flush with roofline and windshield. Do you think it's possible to if indeed 997 dimension of windshield is the same with the 996(GT3 more then likely has same windshield as 996) that the seal/windshield can be retrofitted to the GT3/996 or it's a waste of time. Your thoughts are welcome. Regards. Mike

macfly

I think you'd be chasing a marketing dog's tail. My suspicion is the cars are much more alike than Porsche would like you to know. The chassis and core of the machine hasn't changed, just the inner and outer skins, the size of the bore in the motor, and lots of little easy to swap out bits to make it seem all new.

996FLT6

Yeah I hear ya. Marketing always make a wow turn into a "WOW". By the way I never ran Willow Springs and looking at your avatar-is it a nice track? How easy/difficult it is to navigate your GT3 thru the track? Regards. Mike

Cupcar#12

This is similiar to the 85% new 964 and the 65% New 993 ( forget the exact numbers)- and we all know how much of those 2 series can be interchanged easily. the 997 is a development of the 996.

Karl S

My understanding is that the 997 has a new design for the rear suspension and a wider track. Suspension design is similar to the GT3 RSR. The chassis is also much stiffer due to new manufacturing techniques being used. The same thing was done on the 2004 GT3 Cup car and it makes a huge difference. I think that the fact an "S" was only a few seconds off the time of a GT3 at the 'Ring implies that the changes to the 997 are not just cosmetic or simple bolt on upgrades.

Karl

macfly

Mike, Willow Springs is a really fast, open track, but in it's 2 miles there are only has 9 turns, prompting some say it's a bland track. It calls itself the 'Fastest Road in the West' which is true, your average speed there will be way higher than at any other track, but that's because there aren't enough turns to slow you down. It's my local track, and it's also very affordable to rent for the (week) day, so I do end up there a lot, and it still is challenging. Taking turn 8 at 125 in the GT3 demands and gets all your attention! (the guys in the full on racecars can get up to 160 thru there, I can only imagine what that's like!).

In terms of how easy is it to navigate the track in the GT3, very once you have it dialed in right. It is very hard if your alignment is off, so it's really good to set up your car, because the principle turns are so long, thus you can really feel the changes you make with alignment, tire choice and pressure etc.

Here is a list of the tracks I've run at over the last three years in order of preference......
1.) Laguna Seca. to me the perfect track, it is beautiful, challenging, fun and exciting.
2.) CA Speedway mixing Oval and infield courses. Great combo of speed and technical sectors in a state of the art complex.
3.) Vegas Speedway mixing Oval and infield courses, again a great combo of speed and technical sectors in a state of the art complex.
4.) Barber Motor Park in AL (did that one at the PDE, lovely track, but all right handers!)
5.) ButtonWillow, this track is almost like the English country lanes I learnt to drive on, lovely fun technical track.
6.) Willow Springs big course. Open, fast, exciting, but lacks variety.
7.) Vegas road track (used bt Derek Daly School). Almost a kart track, but really fun in the Formula Dodges they use.
8.) Sears Point, fiddly, finicity and way too much concrete.
9.) Streets of Willow, great in a shifter kart, too tight for and little for a 3,000lb car.

Bob Rouleau

With respect the the 'ring lap times, I'd like to know what kind of tires the 997 used. We know the GT3 used Pilot Sport II rubber. If the 997 S had a set of Pirelli Corsa System tires (std equipment on the Ferrari CS and the GT3 RS) the 997 would have had a very important advantage due to the R compound tires. I also question if the 997 has the GT3 RS suspension - if so, why did they both making the GT3 RS homologation special at all? One thing is fairly evident, Porsche is pushing hard to make up some ground, their car sales are way off (down about 30 percent) and the Cayenne is what's making the profits. It's a good time to push "longer lower wider faster" etc.

With respect to drag, I agree with Macfly - a waste of time. Consider that a GT2/3 has a serious wing on the back which definitely adds drag - on my GT2 with the wing set at maximum downforce I lose about 10 MPH top end and this at only(!) 150 MPH at the end of our back straight. Drag-shmag!

Rgds,

macfly

Indeed a lot has been made of the new 997S lap times at the 'ring, but Bob, I'm with you, there is more to this than meets the eye. Who knows what tires it was wearing, but my guess is that you are right, it was the Corsa System.

I have four different laps of the 'ring on my computer now, different cars, days and driving styles. The weather, the traffic, the driver and his mood all effect the lap times, and I think the 997 results are somewhat dictated by the needs of the marketing dept.

I bet you that I could never get my car round the 'ring in under 10 minutes, even on Cups, and I'm a pretty brisk DE day driver. Walter can do it in under 8, but he has over 10,000 laps under his belt, so I read in an interview recently. He could probrably take your granny's station wagon round there faster than most of us could our cars!

In terms of simple physics the weight and the power just haven't changed enough, the only place that they could make up all that time is in the handling, and most of that is in the tires. Look at the BMWM3csl, it is a full 20 seconds a lap faster than the regular M3. That isn't because it has 4% more power and 5% less weight, it's because it's on Pilot Sport Cups! Tires are where this new 997 time is coming from too IMHO.

Viken

The 997 Carrera S is riding on Porsche spec 19" Pilot Sport PS2 tires (235/35 & 295/30). Also, the suspension has nothing in common with the GT3's or the GT3RS's. It's not even an adjustable height coilover setup. The anti-roll bars are not adjustable either.

MJones

All right handers...not
Turns 1, 5, 6, 9, 11, 15 are left hand turns

macfly

All right handers...not
Turns 1, 5, 6, 9, 11, 15 are left hand turns

Indeed, it's the invetability of a circuit, but all the 'good' turns are right handers.

Karl S

I wasn't referring to the shocks and springs. I don't think too many people would buy a street car with 1600 lb springs or be able to use remote reservoir adjustable shocks. Note that the rear track on the 997 is much wider than the 996, which means longer control arms, track rods, etc. This changes the suspension geometry, including pick up points.

Ever wonder why the GT3 RSR has wide fender flares? It's not just because it runs a wider tire than the Cup car, it's because it has a completely different suspension that gives it a wider track than the Cup car.

I'm not claiming the GT3 RSR and the 997 share any interchangeable parts. But I have been told by a racer who is close to the factory that the rear suspension design on the 997 is new and borrows heavily from the design of the GT3 RSR. As a result, the 997 has much more bite coming out of a corner, which allows it to get the power down sooner. I think this plus the stiffer chassis was the biggest contributor to the improved lap times of the 997.

Karl

Viken

Yes, I know. I was responding to Bob Rouleau's post about the 997's tires and suspension.

macfly

the 997 has much more bite coming out of a corner, which allows it to get the power down sooner

How can this be, I'm already hard on the power at almost every apex in my car, and it grips and bolts like a rabbit on rails at a greyhound track. How can you get on the power sooner? Is this stuff about the longer arms and wider platform confirmed anywhere in print yet?

Karl S

The wider track has been mentioned in the PAG official press releases and some of the magazine reviews of the 997 quoted the exact numbers. I believe the rear track is an inch and a half wider than the 996.

Karl