buckdr1

Bob, thanks for the input. I'll be leaving well enough alone, but I like the idea of lighter race wheels for Track work. Your also right on about the noise level police @ LR(my "local" Track) they really can ruin your day.
Do you have any events for LR scheduled? I'm in for Mont Tremblant in Aug? I believe, 4-days including 1 w/ CVR and the other three w/ Rennsport. I'm thinking of taking the GT3 as well as The Trackmeister, might you be @ that DE?
Oh, did I mention it's Still raining, and a tad of Snow for tonight!
Bill

Carmelo Locurto

buckdr1, I am going to try reg. for same event, if I can arrange for time off before reg. deadline. I am a CVR member, live in Quincy, MA. Have not taken my car out from garage I put in for winter. Rain is making me depressed, it seems like the sun will never be out again!, but worst of all are pot holes we have, I'm sure some are capable of breaking a wheel, or worse!

Bob Rouleau

Metal - I will encourage her to provide a woman's perspective - on the other hand she hates computers.!

Eyal - His and hers. She's got white one, the best color I think and mine is a very rare artic silver <grin> Both cars are setup the same, GT3 seats, roll bar 6 pt harnesses track aligned etc. She's a very good driver and one of our best instructors.
Regards,

Bob Rouleau

Buck - Yes both of us will be there, I have to be there, it's my job <grin>. Carmelo you may be out of luck the event is sold out as far as I know with 150 cars and 30 on the wait list already!

Note Le Circuit has noise regs similar to LR so bring your mufflers!

Best,

RR

Rockitman,

You are wrong.
There ARE 2 versions of the GT3 exhaust, a loud and quiet. I contacted the Stef at Europipe 2 months ago. They just dont have the loud version on their website.

I have to agree with GJ on the horsepower gains with the Europipe exhaust WITHOUT the equal length headers - I dont think there is much more than the 12HP you mentioned. And that 12 hp is mainly coming from the sport cats. The real gains, are in equal length header set ups.
I would call the guys at JZ Mantech, in the UK, they sell the entire system, maybe you can get just the equal length headers from them.

The Manthey system called the K400, includes the Europipe system, (which was designed by Manthey, and manufactured by Europipe.)
Europipe only sells the system WITHOUT the headers. Manthey has Europipe manufacture the mufflers, and cats to their specs, BUT Manthey has SOMEONE ELSE else in Germany make that the equal lenght headers for them.

I spoke to the Steve McHale at JZ Mantech in the UK they carry Mantheys stuff, and they gave me the full run down on the origins of the Europipe Exhaust.

The K400 system gives you 25-30 more hp, BUT that is the full system from Manthey WITH the equal length headers. The Europipe system, WITHOUT the equal lenght headers won't give you much hp gain at all.


This K400 system was orginally made for the MKI GT3, but has been adapted for the MKII. But Manthey is working on a new system for the MKII but through another manufacturer, and not Europipe.

Bob Rouleau

Guys, getting easy HP gains out of a Porsche with an exhaust system on a non turbo has been impossible since the 993 came out. Even the Porsche Sports Exhaust which is essentially an exhaust bypass makes now poer claims. If you look back to the original question, Buck asked about more rumble not more HP. Buck, I believe Joe Fabiani has a system for the GT3 now. I have his loud one on my GT2 - sheer music and built like jewelry.
BTW it is my car in the clip on the track.

bob_dallas

anyone else notice that the car in the demo video on Europipe's website looks exactly like the Manthey Racing GT3MM (or MR or??) that's in Excellence this month? Haven't compared the license plate numbers, and don't have the mag in front of me, but it has the same rear wing, RS front bumper, and appears to be the same color...

bob_dallas

I agree with Bob - all these HP claims are pretty suspect. I don't doubt that someone could squeeze 15hp out of a highly engineered system with exhaust, intake, and chip remapping, but it doesn't come easy and 25-30 sounds virtually impossible without other major mods.

And back to the original question about noise - noise is pretty easy and Fabspeeds sounded great on my old 996 but...I'd be careful with any aftermarkets like that because they can reduce HP. Even if gaining is not your goal, I doubt you'd want to lose HP to gain sound? Definitely want a dyno to make sure you don't find any dead spots in your torque/power curves after the fact.. I know someone who put the straight pipes on and loved the sound but found their power decreased in the lower revs so they are no longer on the car.

rockitman

Edit:
I do now...After about 500 miles with it...The interest to re-dyno just to confirm what I always have known is probably pointless. Drove it 300 miles today very spirited at a meet, it's getting louder and it just giddy-up's the car in addition to much quicker throttle response...

So if I read you post right (That's why I just edited my reply)...what you are saying is: Europipe is making false claims??? Why don't you provide evidence to the contrary before you shoot your mouth off on something you don't know regarding the exhaust and the car....Do you even have a GT3 or are you an air-cooled guy???

rockitman

Not if you want it ODB2 compliant for the US. LG1 in Italy had Stef fabricate one...much louder on his GT3RS. I believe it has no cats...

As far as the peanut gallery passing judgement on the EP...Unless you have one, you will never know. Just the dramatic throttle response improvement alone justifies the expense. Instantaneous rise and fall of the revs...something the stock set up with the choking paper filter is unable to do...

Bass GT3

Guy's,

Speaking from experience, i have had the FULL Manthey K400 kit fitted to my MK1 GT3 by JZ Machtech here in the UK. This comprises equal length headers, new exhausts and cats, muffler boxes, ECU and air filter. The MAF sensor is removed. The results are stunning, simply stunning. The pipe is a different design from Rockitmans Europipe, although made by the same people. The bore diametre is much larger than stock, and the rev limit is raised to 8500, although power starts to drop away by 8/8200. But in the world of NA tuning, you get nothing for nothing. The car is much quicker than before, and shows a clean pair of heals to a standard MK1 and can happily live with a MK2. HOWEVER, there is a noticeable drop in torque before 4k, not severe, but noticeable. After this, it absolutely flies off. My friend has a MK2 and we have had quite a few straight line sprints to test it out. these mods are pretty much what the 99/2001 cup cars ran, and Manthey have a list of dyno runs proving the system, and not from one test mule, but many customer cars. Apparently, this kit would only liberate 15 or so BHP on a MK2 as Porsche made the relevent mods to the MK2 engine already. I think the MK2 revs to around 8200 in the first 4 gears and all the BHP is made at peak revs. For those of you with the latest copy of GT Purely Porsche, it's my car in the article.
Bob D. I think you are right. The Manthey car is the Europipe car as the two companies are working together in the design, testing and fabrication of these pipes.
I too am very suspicious of a lot of these claims as a member of the Titanic group here in the UK, had a system fitted by a well known company, and LOST 8 BHP on the before and after dyno runs.
But please lets remember that part of the joy of owning a Porsche is the modding side. We all fiddle with out cars, and at the end of the day, if you like the sound, the feel, the whatever, job done. Who really is going to notice 8-12 BHP on a 400BHP motor???
Just my 10 pence worth (thats real money guy's!!)

Steve B

buckdr1

Bob, My Annie Marie & I look forward to meeting you. Le Circut has been one that we've wanted to try for a few years now.
By the way any chance you have influence to set Anne up w/ a Female instructor? Your wife being an instructor, sounds good to her She's seems to do better w/ the "gals" . Just in case my 964 is # 174
Buck

RR

Its not the cats or the lack there of, that will make the noise. Its the fact that the mufflers themselves are less silenced with either less packing, OR, the pipe is welded straight through which would yield the most sound. I know cause I had that set up on my old C2. Headers, sport cats and stright thru pipe.

A stock exhaust has one pipe coming into the muffler chamber and another going out..and these 2 pipes ARE NOT connected which quiets the muffler. The extreme would to be have them welded together, I had this on my old C2. The in between is to have them welded together with a perforated tube.

With an equal length set of headers and a straight through welded pipe the sound is magnificent, you can really hear the "backing off" popping, sounds incredible, you wont get that WITHOUT the equal length headers, thats why they are important to me. Not so much for the HP, but for the sound.

So if it is sound you are wanting it is easy.

Equal length headers give you more of that racy popping sound when backing off - which can only really be heard if you have a straight thru/loud exhaust. The more your mufflers have muffled the sound, the less you will hear this popping.

Sport cats, add a bit of a deeper rumble at idle. I had the sport cats installed on my car with stock headers and with equal leght header WITH stock exhaust, and they only really added a more booming sound at idle.

Mufflers give you the change in the db. Very loud if pipe is straight thru, not so loud with perforated tube, and quiet if there is no straight tube pipe at all.



I