wch

"I passed on a Stradale because it has ceramic brakes and the freaking pads are a stupid price, $6,200 US for a full set at the local dealer. Since I actually DRIVE my cars paying those prices for consumable items is a real disincentive. "

Just took delivery today on the Stradale, as a matter of fact. "Real disincentive" is an understatement, particularly for a car I intend to not only drive but also track. Either (i) everything will last an improbably long time, making the ceramics reasonable (a man's got to have hope, so don't laugh) or (ii) a lot of Stradale owners will convert. There appear to be conversion options for the car.

Bob Rouleau

WCH - The conversion is probaby the iron rotors from the 360 Challenge race car. That system works very very well. I have heard stories about cermaic brake problems on Enzos and Stradales. Check prices - it may be cheaper to change now <grin>. I am told that race parts are available at more reasonable prices if you shop around.

Best,

brh986

Where are you finding PCCB rotors for only $1k each?

brh986

Strdadale pads are $6,200!??!

How much are the rotors?


Are you sure Porsche is actually warrnaty the rotors for 185,000 for street use? That's not what I was told by the dealer otherwise I would have bought them and let them try and prove I was on the track.

GuyR

Bob,

If you remember from the threads a while back, my GT2 rotors had been replaced by Porsche because they were also 'kaput' at 8,000 miles. They did so because it was clear that it had occurred due to the previous owner.

This was 6 months ago and the prices quoted were the same stupid level as you mentioned (circa $10,000 per ONE rotor).

My UK dealer advised a switch to GT3 steel rotors for the front if the car was to be tracked, but bizarrely advised keeping rear PCCB, as they wear much less (my PCCB rears are OK) and you need to buy the smaller 330mm calipers to convert to GT3/Turbo rears as you stated.

I will investigate the UK price for PCCB. If they are indeed down to $1,000 each then there is no problem and I'll keep them.............but I doubt it.........

Guy

Bob Rouleau

BRH - if you go back about 30 days and look at the thread called PCCB arbitration results you will see lots of confirmation about Porsche's stance on PCCB rotors with respect to cars driven on track. Colm also compiled the changes on PAG's website regarding the performance of PCCB rotors. Your dealer probably told you they would last forever. That was more or less the claiim at first. That's changed. Read the thread - it is interesting.

Having just had the experience, I can confirm that Porsche Cars is sticking with the warranty which specifically excludes track use. Exceptions have been made based on customer loyalty, extenuating circumstances etc but they are the exception. Perhaps your dealer will take the hit, perhaps not. What I have discovered is that there have been no problems with PCCB unless the car saw a lot of track time. As a result, claiming a failure by denying track use will be suspicious. Those tech reps are not dumb.

In my case, attempting to pretend no track use is impossible. The dealer does the tech inspection on my car for DE. I am the Chief Instructor of a region known for extensive DE activities (15-20 days per season) and I write a monthly column in the region magazine.. the dealer gets it and based on some comments so does Porsche Cars.

If you have PCCB and track your car save yourself a mess of trouble and potenitally expensive replacements by using steel rotors on track. The conversion is a small percentage of the price of the car. The steel brakes work very well indeed and the pads (and rotors) are cheaper.

Best,

AdamGT3

Bob and all

I thought I would follwo up on what I heard here in the UK as I really wanted to order the GT3 with PCCB as I loved the feel of them.

However, I wont be ordering PCCB, the information I had heard from a number of sources is BS. These are the proces quoted from the dealer:

£28,000 + VAT for all 4 corners (discs and pads)
£5800 + VAT per corner discs only
£3200 + VAT per corner for refurbished discs

For the steel it is £2000 + VAt for all 4 discs and pads.

So steel it will have to be.

Bob Rouleau

Guy,

One of my pals is planning on changing out his front rotors to some new kit which was tested at the Daytono 24 hours last month. Only the fronts. This made me wonder about the impact on the ABS and brake bias system which is calibrated carefully to the rotors pads and even the spec tires. Have you noticed any difference in ABS behavior? I suspect that you don't invoke it often mind you but if you did, was there a difference?

Regards,

I'm going with the full GT3 kit which means changing the rear calipers. The cost is less than half the price of a single ceramic rotor and I will no longer fear outrageous replacement costs. Gert Carenewal has the kit which he has supplied to a number of Eruopean clients who ran into the PCCB problem before we did in the colonies.

Bob Rouleau

Adam - thanks for the data point. I have been told the ceramics are costly because of a yield problem. Perhaps this will improve but I haven't seen any indications of better pricing yet. Watt has posted some very interesting numbers and he has remarakable sources.

BTW my GT3 (ordered with steel rotors) brakes as well as the GT2 with Ceramics. The unsprung weight benefit of PCCB can be ofset by getting lighter wheels.
Regards,

brh986

Actually I have followed that thread closely. You are in Canada so you're probalby dealing with a different branch of Porsche (I don't know). I am aware of the marketing materials claiming an 185,000 mile life span but I am not aware of any express written warranty gauranteeing that. When I tried to nail down exactly what I do or don't in terms of PCCB warranty I was unable to get any specific written warranty outlining it. It was unclear whether they would considered "wear items" like iron discs or not. At one point my dealer said they would get the same 4 year 50,000 mile warranty as the entire car but I have yet to see that in writing. I simply canceled the PCCB order and went with iron. If anyone can show me a written warranty describing in explicit detail what is and is not covered in regards to PCCB I would love to see it.

GuyR

Bob,

My concern with downsizing the rear rotors was also the effect on brake balance, although the effect of two different friction surfaces if the rear is PCCB and front is steel is also uncertain. The Yellow pads work on steel or ceramic.

Regarding ABS, from previous threads my understanding is that Porsche did not recalibrate for ceramics anyway.

On the issue of weight, the effect on rotational inertia will be minimal, so effect on acceleration will be small, however the unsprung weight will be noticed on roads where there are severe small bumps or undulations, but I suspect not on the track where there are few 'fast transitions' in suspension extension if you know what I mean due to the smoothness of the track.

Adam,

That price you got matches the prices quoted to me by my dealer. I've never heard of re-furbished ceramics though, seems a little odd.

Guy

Sloth

Has anybody actually tried to fit the smaller 330mm rotors to the rear PCCB caliper on either the GT2 or the GT3? I have been told by some it would not work, but I have also been told by a few "reputable" Porsche shops that the size and thickness difference should not be an issue. The problem is I have not found anybody that has performed the swap and tried to use the same rear calipers.

Gert also has this posted on his website for the GT2 steel rotor upgrade...

The rear brakes are the same for the P96Turbo and the P96GT2, only the color of the caliper is different.

I understand that Porsche released a kit for those that wanted to convert back to steel rotors. This kit includes the whole 9 yards with rotors, calipers, pads, everything... I am sure that PAG would want to include new red calipers in their kit in order to more easily justify charging more.

Also with the limited number of cars that are getting the PCCB system I would think PAG would want to put it into production as cheaply as possible. Think about it... they could not even justify the cost of retuning the suspension and ABS for the limited number of cars equipped with PCCB. Based on that I ask... would PAG use off the shelf parts or would they special develop and engineer different calipers and/or uprights just for the rear of those cars running PCCB's.

I may be wrong, but I plan on trying it before purchasing new calipers or if I hear this has been tried and simply does not work.

GuyR

Haven't tried, but simple logic suggests that whilst the smaller rotor will fit the larger caliper ie 330mm rear GT3/Turbo steel disc inside 350mm ceramic rear rotor, the pad would not entirely be touching the disc surface given the smaller radius.

AdamGT3

Guy

Agree it seems odd but the parts manager came up with it off the system when I told him I had heard rumours about the costs coming down.

You give them you old discs that are on the way out and you get re-furbs for less cost. Still very expensive!!!

Adam

Sloth

I see your logic Guy. Perhaps it goes the other way, as evidenced by the same pads used for both the PCCB's and steel. Would it be possible that the caliper and pads were made for the 330mm rotor and that the pads do not go to the rotor edge when used with the 350mm rotors? Will have to take a look when I get home. I just can not see PAG spending the extra money on a different rear caliper for a rear rotor that is going to be produced and used in limited numbers.

I guess the only way to really tell for sure would be to pull the brakes apart and see what fits.