2 Questions regarding tourist delivery...
02-19-2004, 05:13 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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2 Questions regarding tourist delivery...
I realize it may be a long shot anyone here will know these exact answers off the top of thier head but the guys over at my dealership have a tendancy to be "yesmen" to a degree so I'm just curious if I can get an independent source as well... Some of my apprehension to soley guy by the dealership and Porsche is in regards to some things I was told regarding PCCB brakes but I won't get into that here.
First thing is, does anyone know if driving on the Nuerburgring during normal public hours is insured by the tourist insurance you get through the tourist delivery program? If not is there any way to insure against this that isn't cost prohibitive? I badly want to drive on the ring this June but I don't think there is anyway to justify put the entire cost of a $100k+ car on the line just for a few hours of fun...
Now for the more complex question...
I know that when doing a tourist delivery you must pay a substantial VAT tax that is later refunded when you export the car and if you do not export the car you loose the VAT. There is a good chance a may move to Germany (or somewhere in europe) permenently perhaps as early as this summer and therefore I'm going to want my car! As I understand it the car must be sent back to the united states and held there for 6 months or a year (can anyone confirm how long it is?) before it can be shipped back to Europe. Are there any options at all for getting my car back to Europe or somehow keeping it there short of canceling the order and reordering through a European dealer (which I do NOT want to do)? Does anyone know how large the penalty is if you do not export the car? What about the possilibity of getting a credit for shipping from Porsche if the car were kept in Europe for applying toward the penalty? I know they will give you a ~$700 credit if you pick your car up at the shipping port back in the US rather than having it sent by truck to your local dealer.
Bottom line is I think there's a good chance I'm staying in Germany and while I could live with waiting 6 months to get my car back a year is just way too much. Any ideas (even if speculation) on creative options would be greatly appreciated...
First thing is, does anyone know if driving on the Nuerburgring during normal public hours is insured by the tourist insurance you get through the tourist delivery program? If not is there any way to insure against this that isn't cost prohibitive? I badly want to drive on the ring this June but I don't think there is anyway to justify put the entire cost of a $100k+ car on the line just for a few hours of fun...
Now for the more complex question...
I know that when doing a tourist delivery you must pay a substantial VAT tax that is later refunded when you export the car and if you do not export the car you loose the VAT. There is a good chance a may move to Germany (or somewhere in europe) permenently perhaps as early as this summer and therefore I'm going to want my car! As I understand it the car must be sent back to the united states and held there for 6 months or a year (can anyone confirm how long it is?) before it can be shipped back to Europe. Are there any options at all for getting my car back to Europe or somehow keeping it there short of canceling the order and reordering through a European dealer (which I do NOT want to do)? Does anyone know how large the penalty is if you do not export the car? What about the possilibity of getting a credit for shipping from Porsche if the car were kept in Europe for applying toward the penalty? I know they will give you a ~$700 credit if you pick your car up at the shipping port back in the US rather than having it sent by truck to your local dealer.
Bottom line is I think there's a good chance I'm staying in Germany and while I could live with waiting 6 months to get my car back a year is just way too much. Any ideas (even if speculation) on creative options would be greatly appreciated...
Last edited by brh986; 02-20-2004 at 01:03 PM.
02-19-2004, 06:06 PM
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Burning Brakes
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brh986: AFAIK LonnieR is the only person that regularly posts to this forum that has done tourist delivery on a GT3 so if he doesn't see this thread you might want to PM him. Or call PCNA's European Delivery Department at (800) 446-7978, ext. 5. As for the pre-paid VAT, in the 2003 Order Guide it's $10K for a C2 and $15K for a turbo so you'd be somewhere in between. PCNA can give you the actual rate.
02-19-2004, 06:27 PM
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First thing is, does anyone know if driving on the Nuerburgring during normal public hours is insured by the tourist insurance you get through the tourist delivery program? If not is there any way to insure against this that isn't cost prohibitive? I badly want to drive on the ring this June but I don't think there is anyway to justify put the entire cost of a $100k+ car on the line just for a few hours of fun...
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=23955
Although the Ring is actually a public street, insurance doesn't pay if you wreck your car. The whole situation with the Nordschleife is a little bit tricky: it is a public street with speed limit(!), maximum speed is actually 130 kph with different portions of lower speed limits. Now of course you won't see a police man with a radar gun on the Nordschleife but if you drive faster than the legal speed limit, your insurance has the best excuse not to pay. And it isn't difficult for the police and experts to find out how fast you were when you wrecked your car. Usually the insurances exclude Nuerburging driving in their contracts (the small print...) and rental companies do that anyway, especially the large ones.
Track racing is always at your own risk in Germany, with one exception: driver ed events which are officially labeled as such (for example the Porsche Driving School).
I'm afraid the people who pick up their new Porsche at the factory and drive it to the Ring don't know what they do, they maybe think their car is insured. It isn't. And even worse: if somebody else hits you, you very likely have to pay your cost yourself too because of "hit and run" incidents or the failure to prove who's fault it was. They don't happen often but there is a risk. One reason why I avoid tracks like hell when it is "open driving day". All the crazy guys from the neighborhood in their compacts are on the track and driving like hell. I prefer controlled track events with semi-pro drivers.
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RC Germany (Rennteam.com)
Track racing is always at your own risk in Germany, with one exception: driver ed events which are officially labeled as such (for example the Porsche Driving School).
I'm afraid the people who pick up their new Porsche at the factory and drive it to the Ring don't know what they do, they maybe think their car is insured. It isn't. And even worse: if somebody else hits you, you very likely have to pay your cost yourself too because of "hit and run" incidents or the failure to prove who's fault it was. They don't happen often but there is a risk. One reason why I avoid tracks like hell when it is "open driving day". All the crazy guys from the neighborhood in their compacts are on the track and driving like hell. I prefer controlled track events with semi-pro drivers.
--------------------
RC Germany (Rennteam.com)
02-19-2004, 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Steve in FL
brh986: AFAIK LonnieR is the only person that regularly posts to this forum that has done tourist delivery on a GT3 so if he doesn't see this thread you might want to PM him. Or call PCNA's European Delivery Department at (800) 446-7978, ext. 5. As for the pre-paid VAT, in the 2003 Order Guide it's $10K for a C2 and $15K for a turbo so you'd be somewhere in between. PCNA can give you the actual rate.
brh986: AFAIK LonnieR is the only person that regularly posts to this forum that has done tourist delivery on a GT3 so if he doesn't see this thread you might want to PM him. Or call PCNA's European Delivery Department at (800) 446-7978, ext. 5. As for the pre-paid VAT, in the 2003 Order Guide it's $10K for a C2 and $15K for a turbo so you'd be somewhere in between. PCNA can give you the actual rate.
Thanks for the rennteam link
FYI there is one way to get car insurance on the Neurburgring...
Rent a car using a credit card that offers you free rental car insurance. The german (and perhaps european) rental car companies may be smart enough to write specific exclusions for the nurburgring but chances are your american credit card company is not.
02-19-2004, 08:36 PM
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brh986: I'm not surprised they're telling you that. You're posting the bond to guarantee you'll take the car out of the country. Don't do that and it would seem clear you lose the bond.
02-19-2004, 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by brh986
Steve, I have documentation on what my VAT is (somewhere) I'm just wondering about ways (if any) to keep the car in Europe without simply loosing the whole thing. My questions aren't specific to the GT3 or even necessarily to Porsche and tourist delivery I imagine. Porsche's official line is that I cannot do what I want.
Thanks for the rennteam link
FYI there is one way to get car insurance on the Neurburgring...
Rent a car using a credit card that offers you free rental car insurance. The german (and perhaps european) rental car companies may be smart enough to write specific exclusions for the nurburgring but chances are your american credit card company is not.
Steve, I have documentation on what my VAT is (somewhere) I'm just wondering about ways (if any) to keep the car in Europe without simply loosing the whole thing. My questions aren't specific to the GT3 or even necessarily to Porsche and tourist delivery I imagine. Porsche's official line is that I cannot do what I want.
Thanks for the rennteam link
FYI there is one way to get car insurance on the Neurburgring...
Rent a car using a credit card that offers you free rental car insurance. The german (and perhaps european) rental car companies may be smart enough to write specific exclusions for the nurburgring but chances are your american credit card company is not.
02-19-2004, 10:38 PM
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maybe.....
I would suggest looking at some of the European message boards, because I know there are all kinds of ways of doing these things, but ironically they usually require you to be rich enough to have homes in the tax shelters!
I don't know this for a fact, but there are some tax havens in EU, like Monaco. If you have an address there you could 'export' it to there. Also Switzerland isn't an EU country, so you could possibly take it there, and register it, but then you'll have to pay whatever the Swiss taxes are.
You could also join the US Armed forces, as that'll do it for you!!
I don't know this for a fact, but there are some tax havens in EU, like Monaco. If you have an address there you could 'export' it to there. Also Switzerland isn't an EU country, so you could possibly take it there, and register it, but then you'll have to pay whatever the Swiss taxes are.
You could also join the US Armed forces, as that'll do it for you!!
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02-20-2004, 01:56 AM
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Start with the European section of this site, and try
http://www.stuttgartnines.co.uk/uplo...isplay.php?f=7
http://www.stuttgartnines.co.uk/uplo...isplay.php?f=7
