Audidude

Source for this??

The only times (official) I could find were 8:13 for the C2, and 8:16 for the C4S - I think that's slower

But you can't really compare times done on different days.
I've raced in the Nurburgring 24 Hour 3 times, and the track conditions can change hour to hour, not just day to day, and affect different parts of the track differently - I've been up the mountain on slicks in pouring rain (no fun at all!!) while it was dry and sunny on the F1 track.

Tyre choice makes a big difference too.

3 seconds is nothing - the most you could say is there's very little between them.

As you'd expect. The C4S is 150KG heavier than the C2, slower to 100kph, and slower top speed - weight rules! But in slippery conditions 4WD will usually beat 2WD. In dry the advantage is lost, but not slower - weight does that.

snoopybee

Not to mention the normal non-classic / not-too-enthusiasts type, I owned Honda Integra DA3, Civic EG4, Toyota Altezza SXE10, BMW E46 325, E90 335, E36 M3 (4 door manual classic example), before joining the club.

I started with the entry 987.2 Cayman S with PDK, loved the ride! Speed, control, power, comfort ... too well balanced for daily commute and a weekend morning drive. The only thing is about the engine ... I can barely reach it easily for "self-maintenance" job. So with 2 years of ownership, I decided Porsche's are more than a trustworthy car which I can manage to get an older model .....

2000 996 cabriolet !! With 60000km on the clock, sound of engine runs smooth without immediate attention of the IMS problem (fingers crossed). First day of ownership, I had to replace the a/c compressor. Then clean the throttles and improve fuel consumption significantly. I have heaps of minor projects on hand with this baby which makes me proud of keeping it in my garage.

All in all, FF -> FR -> MR -> RR possess different characteristics and all are fun to drive with.
911 is the classic representative for RR, although an air-cooled 993 may be a more classic representative, I enjoyed the 996 with more modern interior equipment. So, if you ask what is so special with any 911, I would simply say, 911 means RR and RR means 911.

Audidude

Exactly - being stuck with one marque only, even one model for some, means you miss out on the driving pleasure that other cars can give.

My 911 is new to me - only 8 weeks, but already it's undoubtedly the most engaging and communicative drive, but I totally love the crazy chipped Megane with the same power and more torque than the 911, same weight, and all through the front wheels - that's VERY different, and a hoot.

The Integra Type R is different again - no torque, but that high end scream of the B18CR (JDM) is intoxicating and the chassis so sharp and forgiving - and only 1060kgs.

The ur quattro is totally different again - from a different era - heavy controls but refined with steering and grip it's got no right to have on paper!

the E39 M5 - totally brilliant engine - 400hp500NM all from NA V8 and manual shifter - stunning touring car, and a sleeper to the uninformed.

See the strengths in other cars, keep your eyes open and enjoy all you can.

Barn996

Just wanted to thank the OP. Had a terrific dump while reading about his extensive search and car knowledge.Thank you.

Audidude

Billup

Why is it a PITA? I had the easiest purchasing experience of my life. Saw the car, wanted the car, got a rental, drove 700 miles, did a quick run around, and brought the damn thing home. This is almost as good as the IMSB threads.

I put in no more purchasing effort than any other car, because it's just that. A car.

ZuffenZeus

That's so ironic Bill. I was just in Nashville a few moons ago on vacation and stopped by to look at Red Mk1 Porsche with an aero kit. The sales manager came out and said, "Sorry buddy, but this one is probably sold by some guy up north." He said, "no worries, you don't want it anyways, this one has a problem that *we* all know about and will give the Yankee about 4-5 months and BAAM, it will grenade itself. LONG LIVE DIXIE!!!!"

Billup

Wait wait wait. You mean to tell me they KNEW the IMSB was at the end of it's life?!?!

At first I was going to take this secret to the grave, but the fragile IMSB turned into millions of tiny pieces on the delivery drive home. I'm a little embarrassed because I should have known better, but C'est La Vie!

911Syncro

Originally Posted by AnthonyGS View Post: RWD does not always beat AWD. It's been pointed out on this forum more than once that the C4s is faster around the 'ring than a C2.

This article describes the Nurburgring testing which resulted in the C4S being faster, look on page 81:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post14125769

911Syncro

So, to fan the flames, I'll give my opinions on BMW. (with prejudice!)

• the majority of BMW owners would have done better to just get a Camry (driven by status and image vs. love of a car). 911 owners specifically want and cherish their car.
• after about 3 years, all BMWs look old and outdated (to my eye). Something about the constant redesigns just make the majority look like outdated models. 911s always appear current and credible no matter how old they are.
• BMWs seem to be souped-up sedans, 911s are sports cars.

TonyTwoBags

BMWs also notoriously fickle near their limits. Much less mechanical grip than 911 platform. More prone to oversteer when you don't need or want it, which makes pushing their new super-sedan/coupe M-cars an incredibly dangerous task.

That said, I really want an E39 M5 or E36 M3. Much more balance which translates into an ability to push those cars without the insane power that can overwhelm the chassis in newer, drag-oriented cars. The early 2000s M-cars are some of my favorites of all time. Timeless lines & great powertrains.

Mike Murphy

No way, BMW have classic lines and styling that ages gracefully. The E46 still looks great.

Souped up sedans? Yes, but that's always been why they are so great. Real Back seats and a real trunk, but still sporty and can hang with a 911.

Mike Murphy

Really? Unless you're talking about the new ones. I've driven lots of different BMWs from the '00s and they all had a very good weight distribution and great handling, even very predictable at the limit, easy to control.

Again, Chris Harris didn't mention any of this on that video. Even the Top Gear new M5 was "the best in class" that Lexus' LFA, Cadillac, Mercedes, others could not unseat.

The only car that can unsettle BMW number 1 sedan status these days seem to be Italian (Alpha Romeo - Giulia)

moburki

I absolutely loved my '95 M3. It was a benchmark car for me. Don't even know why I sold it. It felt so connected, so balanced. Loved the gearbox, the sound, everything about that car.
That said, the first drive in the 911 was a revelation. A whole new level of visceral driving experience for me. I literally have been kicking myself ever since for not making a less than responsible decision 10 years ago (or more for that matter) and buying one of these things on credit. The hype is real
Oh, and haldex is just fine lol. Torsen works too! Imagine that..

Mike Murphy

I do concede, that I didn't get any respect on the street while driving my E60 M5. People must have just thought it was a regular BMW. But that rarely ever happens when driving a Porsche. Porsche's are more special in this regard. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but in heavy traffic in a city, it's like you're always playing defense with low respect cars, where i think folks are afraid to try to bully a car that might appear to be expensive or fast.