Scored bores are scaring me off
#18
I've said this before and will say it again ... there are plenty of cold climate cars out there that have never been driven in the winter. Like so many other things with these cars, it's all about the service history and knowing where and how the car was driven.
#20
To be specific, AFAIK, it isn't the driving in winter, it is the starting in extreme cold.Meaning no block heater,no heated garage,left outside for 24 hours in very cold temps. We had this misunderstanding a few weeks ago.Not mening to split hairs but there seems to be no problem driving in extreme cold, just starting without some 'help'. Just want to avoid a panic of "Oh , I can't drive it in winter??"
#21
Uh huh. Never...and I mean never...underestimate the ability of mice to damage your 996. I don't want to unduly scare anyone, but it's not limited to the motor. They can affect the convertible top mechanism, the brake pedal and the coolant system. Have you ever seen a water pump impeller after it's been chewed on? Devastating...
#22
Also....
....some believe the scoring appears to be the result of the block heating and cooling at different rates from one end to the other. The end cylinders end up getting out of round. The theory is that if the car was cold started, then driven hard before all the temps equalized and got up proper levels, and then after being run hard, it gets shocked cooled by shutting off without a cool down period, the block expands and contracts at different rates along its length and bam, out of round bores.
That's one theory, anyway.
EVERY car out there has some kind of catastrophic failure mode. BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Chevy, pick your poison.
Choose wisely, take care of the car, let her warm up and cool down properly, run Driven oil and change it every 3,000 miles, and enjoy life.
That's one theory, anyway.
EVERY car out there has some kind of catastrophic failure mode. BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Chevy, pick your poison.
Choose wisely, take care of the car, let her warm up and cool down properly, run Driven oil and change it every 3,000 miles, and enjoy life.
#23
Thanks everyone, seems if I make sure I get a west coast car which hasn't been used in very cold weather, the car hasn't been tracked etc then should be good.
I've had a 3.2 carrera and boxster before so I know these engines do use some oil.
As an extra check if/when I buy a car, when I'm doing the IMS/clutch I will pull off the oil plate from the engine and scope the bores from there, I have a camera myself so it won't take me long to check.
I've had a 3.2 carrera and boxster before so I know these engines do use some oil.
As an extra check if/when I buy a car, when I'm doing the IMS/clutch I will pull off the oil plate from the engine and scope the bores from there, I have a camera myself so it won't take me long to check.
Like others posted, standard high quality oil can protect your at cold startup temps. My car came with 0-40 and is good down below the coldest temps I have started my car at (5F) and as long as you are gentle until warmed up, I don't think the scoring is that common.
#24
To be specific, AFAIK, it isn't the driving in winter, it is the starting in extreme cold.Meaning no block heater,no heated garage,left outside for 24 hours in very cold temps. We had this misunderstanding a few weeks ago.Not mening to split hairs but there seems to be no problem driving in extreme cold, just starting without some 'help'. Just want to avoid a panic of "Oh , I can't drive it in winter??"
That said, I am guilty of linguistic imprecision. Mice may have gotten to my cerebral cortex.
#26
Parked OUTSIDE!!! You are really asking for it! Mice don't hibernate in the winter...
#27
Uh huh. Never...and I mean never...underestimate the ability of mice to damage your 996. I don't want to unduly scare anyone, but it's not limited to the motor. They can affect the convertible top mechanism, the brake pedal and the coolant system. Have you ever seen a water pump impeller after it's been chewed on? Devastating...
a lot of people fault Porsche for the bore scoring and IMS issues but they fail to look at the big picture. The explaination for bore scoring is quite simple, actually. When you park your car in the garage on cool/cold evenings, the mice are looking for somewhere warm to sleep. They will crawl into the exhaust and nestle next to the catalytic converter. Sometime during the night they discover that the special platinum alloy is quite tasty and begin to chew away at it. This occurs night after night until one evening they've completely chewed through the cats. Once they find an open path they will discover that one of the exhaust valves are open. This is usually cylinder number six as the way the engine is balanced from the factory, number six exhaust valves are typically open when the engine comes to rest. The smaller more adventurous mice crawl into the cylinder and bed down. This typically isn't an issue for most owners as the mice wake up and head out to search for food before the car is started. The problem surfaces on the morning a Porsche owner starts the car before around six AM. The tiny mice are still in the combustion chamber. When the car starts and the piston reaches TDC, they are crushed. It's the little mouse bones that begin to score the bores. If you keep your garbage in the garage this can happen night after night, eventually leading to engine failure. Of special note; most people don't know this, but young mice are actually a bit claustrophobic. This is the reason you see the 3.6L cars exhibit these failures more often. That little bit of extra displacement is really attractive to the little guys. This explains why you can have a 3.4L car and it would be OK, yet your neighbor with the 3.6L can be affected. Most folks think there is no way to predict an impending score if issue, not true. When you first start the car, plant your foot to the floor and hold the engine at redline for 5-7 seconds. Have a friend look for tiny mouse droppings shooting out of the exhaust. This HAS to be done at cold start as once the engine is up to operating temps the mouse droppings will vaporize. If you find droppings, a cheap fix is a bit of D-con. $5 fix. Done.
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#29
So summary I guess, if you are scared about buying a high performance sports car, then don't do it! If you don't, do your homework, be prepared and ready to walk away if there is something which puts you off. My car is now 19 years old and I am the 6th owner. Who knows what happened to the car? Mine had a good maintenance history, relative low mileage but no garage queen (so driven regularily), well maintained (which a good mechanic will be able to tell you) with original parts and tires. Then to start my ownership it got a full service with clutch/IMS/RMS/AOS, fresh tires and replaced airco condensors & cleaning of radiators. I plan to do chain tensioners etc in next 2 years. **** could still happen but I think I am off to a good start! I think that is the way to approach it. Don't go out to find the best & cheapest buy. It can work but you'd better try to find a good one, enjoy it and be prepared you still might need to do an engine rebuild somewhere along the way.
#30
I posted this in another thread, but when it comes to mice it is worth noting-
a lot of people fault Porsche for the bore scoring and IMS issues but they fail to look at the big picture. The explaination for bore scoring is quite simple, actually. When you park your car in the garage on cool/cold evenings, the mice are looking for somewhere warm to sleep. They will crawl into the exhaust and nestle next to the catalytic converter. Sometime during the night they discover that the special platinum alloy is quite tasty and begin to chew away at it. This occurs night after night until one evening they've completely chewed through the cats. Once they find an open path they will discover that one of the exhaust valves are open. This is usually cylinder number six as the way the engine is balanced from the factory, number six exhaust valves are typically open when the engine comes to rest. The smaller more adventurous mice crawl into the cylinder and bed down. This typically isn't an issue for most owners as the mice wake up and head out to search for food before the car is started. The problem surfaces on the morning a Porsche owner starts the car before around six AM. The tiny mice are still in the combustion chamber. When the car starts and the piston reaches TDC, they are crushed. It's the little mouse bones that begin to score the bores. If you keep your garbage in the garage this can happen night after night, eventually leading to engine failure. Of special note; most people don't know this, but young mice are actually a bit claustrophobic. This is the reason you see the 3.6L cars exhibit these failures more often. That little bit of extra displacement is really attractive to the little guys. This explains why you can have a 3.4L car and it would be OK, yet your neighbor with the 3.6L can be affected. Most folks think there is no way to predict an impending score if issue, not true. When you first start the car, plant your foot to the floor and hold the engine at redline for 5-7 seconds. Have a friend look for tiny mouse droppings shooting out of the exhaust. This HAS to be done at cold start as once the engine is up to operating temps the mouse droppings will vaporize. If you find droppings, a cheap fix is a bit of D-con. $5 fix. Done.
a lot of people fault Porsche for the bore scoring and IMS issues but they fail to look at the big picture. The explaination for bore scoring is quite simple, actually. When you park your car in the garage on cool/cold evenings, the mice are looking for somewhere warm to sleep. They will crawl into the exhaust and nestle next to the catalytic converter. Sometime during the night they discover that the special platinum alloy is quite tasty and begin to chew away at it. This occurs night after night until one evening they've completely chewed through the cats. Once they find an open path they will discover that one of the exhaust valves are open. This is usually cylinder number six as the way the engine is balanced from the factory, number six exhaust valves are typically open when the engine comes to rest. The smaller more adventurous mice crawl into the cylinder and bed down. This typically isn't an issue for most owners as the mice wake up and head out to search for food before the car is started. The problem surfaces on the morning a Porsche owner starts the car before around six AM. The tiny mice are still in the combustion chamber. When the car starts and the piston reaches TDC, they are crushed. It's the little mouse bones that begin to score the bores. If you keep your garbage in the garage this can happen night after night, eventually leading to engine failure. Of special note; most people don't know this, but young mice are actually a bit claustrophobic. This is the reason you see the 3.6L cars exhibit these failures more often. That little bit of extra displacement is really attractive to the little guys. This explains why you can have a 3.4L car and it would be OK, yet your neighbor with the 3.6L can be affected. Most folks think there is no way to predict an impending score if issue, not true. When you first start the car, plant your foot to the floor and hold the engine at redline for 5-7 seconds. Have a friend look for tiny mouse droppings shooting out of the exhaust. This HAS to be done at cold start as once the engine is up to operating temps the mouse droppings will vaporize. If you find droppings, a cheap fix is a bit of D-con. $5 fix. Done.
I've looked over it lots of times and can't find anything. Last time I was warming it up I noticed some thick brown ooze on the bottom of the cat/exhaust, like it was seeping through a crack in the welding. Could be a mouse than crawled down the pipe and is getting cooked when I run it...
I think this weekend I'll poke my remote bore camera down there to scope it out and see..