Hello all.

My names Paul and I'm looking to purchase my first Porsche. I have a couple of classics (1966-1970) but nothing this "modern". I'm in need of some advice on a car I have located. It's a 2002 996 C4S, auto, 63k for $26k. The car looks to be in great condition and drives great. It is being sold by a high end sports car dealer with plenty of inventory in the shop.this was a trade in from a guy who bought a 150k Porsche.

I was thinking to run a ppi on this car and was looking for some advice.
1. Porsche garage or local Porsche specialist (Rennology in Illinois) for the Ppi? I've been really impressed with Rennology and minds swayed towards them. Just wanted to check first.
2. Based on the ppi coming back positive, is 63k an OK mileage for these cars? I'm aware of the ins IMS and RMS potentially needing to be done.
3. The car has had 4 owners, each around 3-5 years of ownership. However the Carfax report is missing some Servicing History. Is this an issue? Or could they have taken it to a non-Porsche dealership?
4. Any other watch outs I should be aware of?
5. 26k, but hoping to get some reductions based on the IMS and RMS. What's the going price nowadays and can I expect it to hold its value over the next few years?

Sorry for the offload of questions.

I'd appreciate any responses and advice.

Paul

 

If it made it to 63K without IMSB or RMS issues it is probably good for a lot more miles IMO. My car was similar mileage and incomplete service history so I replaced the IMSB right away and started to build my own service history by replacing the water pump, belt, etc. Based on my experience, I would think this is likely a good car due to 63K and no issues to date (confirmed by PPI of course).

 

Sounds like a good deal. Any reason you chose the C4S?

 

The C4S is just a used car. Be sure to give it a thorough used car checkout.

Visit the car cold. Turn off A/C -- you check this later -- and be sure the CEL comes on then goes off after the engine starts begins to run.

The cold engine wants to start promptly and idle ok. Let it idle a while as you walk around the car but listen for any unusual/scary engine noises.

While you are outside the car check the bottoms of both doors for any signs of dampness. Peer into the radiator ducts -- use a bright flashlight you brought with you. If full of trash at least budget to have the bumper cover removed and this trash cleaned out. This is a sign too that the body water drains are probably full of trash too so if you buy the car be prepared to clean these out before you even wash the car.

After some minutes of idle time have the seller take you on a test ride. The route should be around 15 miles long and give the seller a chance to demo the car as you intend to use it.

Afterwards back at the starting place you switch seats and drive the car over the same route and drive the car the same way. You get to experience the car as you intend to use it.

This test ride/drive keeps the engine running about an hour. This gives the DME time to flag any problems with the emissions systems or engine sensors.

it also gets everything up to temp and keeps everything up to temp for a while. It is when hot that if there are any leaks they show themselves.

After the test ride/drive then back at the starting point you give the car a thorough used car checkout. Assume nothing works until you confirm it does.

If after all of the above you still like the car then arrange for a PPI. This gets the car in the air so a careful check can be made for any leak sign (among other things). Every seal, gasket, o-ring, hydraulic fitting, hose, hose connection, CV boot, etc gets checked for leak sign. Remember the car is a C4S which means it is AWD and there's a front diff and axles and CV boots to check.

For price my usual advice is to visit the web sites: NADA and KBB; and plug in the car's numbers and see what trade-in prices come up. This is probably all the seller has in the car and knowing the trade-in price range gives you a starting place.

Couple of final points: Price is not fact only an opinion. And if you find a deal killing issue with this car don't be afraid to walk away. There is always another car.

Happy Porsche shopping!

 

Here is what it needs if not done already:
IMS/RMS, with clutch service if needed.
Water pump, Air oil separator, update thermostat, belt, Front drive coupler if needed.
Coolant, UP date coolant cap. This will get it healthy for the long term. Allow 3-3500 for repairs. Its a great car and you will love it.

 

Where I am this work will cost at least 5k at an Indy.

 

A month ago I paid $20,500 for an '04 4S cab. 6 spd. 63k miles. IMS/clutch, top hydraulics, window regs, water pump, coils, plugs all done at 55k. Good luck with your search...

 

Great feedback. Thanks very much.

I like the C4S body and of course the AWD. I'm not looking to race the car, just something to use frequently in the summer. I'm also based in Chicago and although I won't be driving it in the snow, it's good to know I can. :-)

I have done two test drives and the car sounds and feels fine. I have only driven a couple of others so difficult to know what to compare it to. When I have driven it I liked it and it all felt good. It started fine from start up and all the electrics seemed to work ok.

One concern I did have was the oil gauge was around 5 while the car was heating up and dropped to around 3-4 on idle once warm and bounced up to 5 during driving. I've read that this gauge does jump around a fair bit and depends on the oil levels in the engine. Just thought I post it in case it was a concern.

Next step is to arrange a PPI as I've exceeded anything I can really check for in a show room. Let's see what an inspection picks up.

I'll keep you all posted.

Again, thanks for the help on this.

 

That's normal.

 

I just went through this process last Christmas. Mine was long distance so I had to rely on the PPI. Since it sounds like the car is "close" to you and you have been able to touch the car you path is a bit different than mine as you did not just have to rely on pictures. Of course, I bought my C4S Cab from a p-car dealer so there was some relative piece of mind and so restriction on negotiating the price. I had to have the wide hips that the 996C4S and TT's have. It sounds like you have some air-cooled's so if you are a member of PCA I would post the question of where to have the PPI on your regions web board.

As others have said, the oil pressure fluctuates, though the amount of bounce can bring a grey hair or two before you learn the car. You did not mention brakes or tires so this might be am upfront cost to consider in your offer. You are looking at a ~15 year old car so you need to budget accordingly. Mileage seems reasonable given the car's vintage. Gaps in the Carfax are not as important since there is no rule for shops to report to them. Nice to see but I think the PPI is more important.

As a data point, I got a 2004 C4S Cab, 82k clean PPI, no records to speak of, newer tires for $26k last Christmas.

 

show us where it is and we can look to see if anythings strange

 

Sounds like a reasonable asking price. I think anything less than $26k would be a good deal for a nice C4S with 63k miles, even with a tiptronic (the tiptronic will generally hurt resale value).

On the plus side, tiptronics have a lower incidence of IMS bearing failure than do 6-speeds. Don't ask me for exact numbers or a cite to where that is in writing. I have a friend who is a Porsche executive who has told me that and I have seen it referenced elsewhere here on Rennlist, so take that statement with a grain of salt.

About the only other thing I can think of would be to ask to see the title and get the previous owner's name off of it. If you can track him down, you might get some more info on the car. However, since he only had it for 3 or 4 years according to the Carfax, then it might not tell you that much.

If your test drives went well, the car gets a good PPI report, and no other red flags are jumping out at you, then I'd move forward. There is never a guarantee that something big won't break, but the vast number of 996 owners are very happy with their cars. Be sure to post a bunch of pictures once you get the deal done.

 

I have a C4 MK1, and I orginally thought it would be good for the snow, but it's not.

The AWD system is the antiquated Vicious coupling, which is not full time AWD. The front wheels are only good for traction around corners, and in extreme situations.

If you drive in the snow, the rear tires will just slide around, and nothing up front.

 

Here isn't he link for the car.

http://www.highlineautosales.com/web/used/Porsche-911-Carrera-2002-Burr-Ridge-Illinois/33539397/

Holdong deposit paid and having the PPI done tomorrow.

Great feedback everyone. Really appreciate the support. I'll update once the PPI is completed tomorrow.

 

Car looks great, although the front bumper where it aligns with the fender looks a bit off. I would make sure all the original decals are under the hood/body panels.