Slakker

And just to be clear, I think the 99xTT's are amazing cars. But the default mind set is that it's the better car for all situations and that if you can afford one you should get it. And I don't think this is correct. They are great daily drivers, very comfortable, and their power is pretty much wasted on the street. On a road track, a lighter NA RWD 911 is going to be more fun for me. The place where the turbo really shines is in the quarter mile and for getting looks and compliments since they are beautiful and flashy.

So just making a counter point to a wide spread assumption, not disrespecting the bigger brother.

docmirror

I'd get the turbo just to get away from the sphincter loosening IMS problem M96 engine. Heck, if it weren't so costly, I'd be dropping the Chebby V8 in mine.

charlieaf92

If you're not going to be racing where 1/10ths of a second matter - buy the one you like best. C4S is a little slower but have some great styling. Turbos are awesome too and so are C2s. Just personal preference of what YOU want to get in and drive. The argument to get a turbo to avoid IMS problems holds less water now that there is the IMS Solution. Ultimately if you ask 100 people you'll get 100 opinions. The only one that matters in this case is yours - buy what you like best and enjoy it.

Slakker

The increased HP barely compensates for the increased weight. And the longer stroke was an accounting move to compensate for the weight. Instead of lengthening the rod to match and maintain the ratio, they actually shortened the rod so they could squeeze it in the same block.

Look, both are amazing cars and this debate has been hashed through many times. I like that my '99 has an actual cable going to the throttle, that it has no traction control, that it's really light and nimble, that it has all of the feel of the air cooled Porsches but with proper power to match.

Once again, I'm not ******* the newer ones. It's just that everyone assumes that newer is better and that's not necessarily the case. A lot of the improvements over the last 17 years have been to make them more comfortable, safer, fuel efficient, and technologically advanced. All of this detracts from the experience of driving the car for me personally.

Have you ever ridden or driven a newish GT3 on the track? They are amazing works of technology! They manage your braking, your acceleration, your up/downshifts, and traction all with a computer making 1000's of decisions a second. All you have to do is focus on the line and how fast you want go. Now this is a bit of an exaggeration as you can still get in trouble but you can also turn out mind numbing times with relatively little experience. This has the performance I want, but there is no way I would sacrifice actually driving my car to get it. I would rather explore the limits of physics and geometry than try to anticipate what my computer is going to do so I can react accordingly.

You know how a GT3 driver tells if they are relying on the nannies too much? The back brake pads wear faster than the front. That's it. It does so much for you and you don't even know it's doing it. You come away thinking you are rockstar.

Three sessions on an unfamiliar track with stock suspension Tues night let me know exactly where I was. When I drove it within its limits, I was able to lay down nice little consistent lap times. When I tried to push a little further I found my @ss end trying to beat my nose to the finish line. No false confidence to be gained there. Just a burning desire for more seat time and continued improvement.

redlineblue

Additional weight comparing 996.1 C2 and 996.2 C2? I totally agree with your underlying premise (if I understand it): the best 911 for any individual is, um, the best 911 for that individual. But I think the .2 has a nice suite of small performance advantages over the .1, apples-to-apples.
My 996.2 with an S bumper, PSE, advanced technik, 18" sport classic II, and 4-cow interior is the ultimate 911! (for me, and my slightly distorted budget priorities)
No ******* of any 911s perceived. I like and learn a lot from your posts!

alpine003

Lol man, you push this $hit all the time. Not knocking on you but just funny that you push this sales pitch so hard on peeps, especially the new ones.

You're preaching to the choir so I'm also in agreement, just think it's funny.

AWDGuy

night and day difference in porsche 996 T and Porsche 996 NA on a race track. I've got to drive both and I would trade my 4.0 NA Porsche any day for a turbo. I would walk my NA Porsche with a turbo one.

jaetee

If planning to resell the car soon, then worry about mileage. If you are planning to keep it for the duration, then I'd worry less about mileage getting a really good runner with documented service history. Personally, I think the $36k car is way too high based on what else is out there, especially if you are willing to be a little bit patient. Worth it? Probably, but compared to what else is out there in the 996 realm, those are pretty $tout.

When you're sitting in the car driving it, you can't see what it looks like anyway... so there's that...

If aesthetics are the primary driving force behind why you want a 996 4S and you are willing to spend that amount, maybe even consider a 997. That way, you get away from the gawd-awful looking boxster headlights and get the more sought after and timeless looking ovals headlights. (only part of my car I don't like, and I'm going to do something about it).

Another consideration in the "looks" department is a C2 or C4 cabrio with hard top option... A neighbor has a dark blue '99 cab (no hard top) and when he saw I got my 2000 Cab, he came over with his and we had the two cars parked side by side and were comparing options and such. He had his top down, and I had the hard top on mine. At one point he got quiet for a moment and then made the comment that my car looked wider than his, and that it was probably because of the hard top on mine. After closer look, my car did seem wider. And when he put his top up, it was very noticeable. It's like the cabrio with the hard top has lines that make it look like a "mini wide body." LOL! I should have taken photos. Best case scenario you save yourself $15-$20k difference and lose 0% of the driving experience in the process.

If you do plan to track the car regularly, I'd prob stick to getting a coupe though.

For the prices I've been tracking for early 996's, $36k could easily buy you two decent mk1's. You could get a cabrio with a hard top and tiptronic (for looks and daily driver duties) and take your time finding a high miles coupe with a manual tranny to put in a roll cage, sports seats and to flog at the track. Yes, it's two cars to maintain, but hey! You'll always have a backup.

Slakker

Lol. That's probably fair. I'll own that one. Not sure if it's to debunk the myths of just to rationalize my own decisions but the passion is definitely there.

I will say that I'm in the camp that hopes they stay cheap and easily replaceable. I think we are safe on this one for awhile.

gwatts

I've driven that car, last year when I was looking. He wanted over $40k last year. The front end, being black, doesn't show well at all. That said, I can't remember much else about it, the interior was decent. I passed mostly because of the price and less due to the wear and tear on front end.

If you are interested in checking out the 4S I ended up with, DM me. Think we have mutual friends/acquaintances in the Boulder/Denver area.

TonyTwoBags

Ok for starters, I too appreciate your inputs, story sharing on the track car, etc. Good stuff and it's obvious that we both care more about the experience than the spec X, Y, or Z that some people can be myopic about.

A pointed question though..

my 03 C2 currently is equipped with:
- IPD plenum and intake (which obviously bumps it to 350hp)
- Sways front & rear (H&R, minimum +10hp so 360hp now)
- no tune yet but likely to get it done at some point soon (any recommendations here appreciated)
- 2959lb curb weight / ~360 rear end hp
- RWD, no PSM, no heated seats, full leather, navigation or really any of the fancy stuff

now taking this very base 996.2 with a couple fun mods in place, how does a 996.1 with comparable updates measure up? Both lack Forsche swerve management, heavy AWD system, etc. My suspicion is that they'll be so close you might not be able to tell on a track, both in terms of acceleration and handling ability.

Do you more or less agree or am I missing something? I know the throttle system is different, but the steering feel, acceleration and handling should be nearly identical.

P.S. Sorry to OP for thread drift. Hopefully it doesn't detract too much from the task at hand: Big Booty PCars

Matt Cooke

You guys are awesome, it has given me a lot think about. Maybe that blue one if the guy writes back. Gwatts I will give you a dm.

Slakker

^^^ haha. You need more stickers to reach your true power potential.

The answer to your question is yes. An '03 C2 won the PCA SP996 championship last year with an identical configuration to all the others except that it was carrying 180lbs more than the 99-01s. Everything from the air intake to the exhaust header, with the exception of an under drive pulley, is stock. Suspension has upgraded coilovers, GT3 LCA, GT3 sways, and adjustable rear toe links. Brakes are stock with choice of pads. The rest is just stripped chassis and safe trip. At this point it becomes all about the driver.

FYI, the fastest car in the advanced group last time I was at Motorsports Ranch, in a field including multiple GT3s, was an '00 SP996.

TonyTwoBags

Good stuff slakker, thanks. It's funny because every time you talk about the no-tutu optioned n/a experience I think "this guy stole my car!"

cbr92901

Just a price point for you as you muddle on your decision. Two yrs ago bought a 2004 4S at retail, about 35K miles, for about $43K, incl warranty to 72 mos/100K miles. Manual cab with aftermarket exhaust/wheels.

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