What do you think of this C4S I might buy?
08-04-2016, 12:19 PM
#16
is also heavier and as we have seen in the other threads - lose about 20hp, 10trq with the AWD setup.
08-04-2016, 12:28 PM
#17
But then the awd can be pushed harder in the corners and is more forgiving to drivers errors. I have been down this road before with other performance rwd and awd like 930,S4 stage 3,RS4's to M3s. I have found the awd is always easier and has faster lap times for me. You can push a C4S to scary limits. It's awd is extremely low intrusive and feels like a rwd untill you need it. I would say most won't have the nerve to push it to its very edge of handling. This is coming from a guy that tracked a modded 930 for years and that car was fun and terrifying with only the difference of a 1% drivers error. The biggest down fall I have found with performance awd is the tires you go through.
08-04-2016, 12:35 PM
#18
Race Car
The AWD is another limiting factor for any kind of track duty. Vandersmith has a great thread about how to shave 2 secs off of lap times and improve your driving experience by converting a C4S to RWD.
As for the suspension, for daily driving the '99 C2 suspension is pretty nice but for any type of AutoX or DE, I don't think it's on par with the C4S and is the first thing I would upgrade.
But for looks and comfort, the C4S is definitely the way to go IMO.
08-04-2016, 12:38 PM
#19
Race Car
Easier and safer. But not near as rewarding nor as quick. And by rewarding, I mean when you make a mistake, the car let's you know instead of correcting it for you. And when you get it right, it's about the same feeling as making fresh tracks on a snowboard in 14" of fresh powder.
08-04-2016, 12:46 PM
#20
I agree. When you get into full blown track animals, then the sky is the limits to any 911. I was generally referring the cars as stock turn key cars with weekend track duties. I did the semi pro track 911 and I can't/won't afford to do it again. It's a massive money pit even when everything is running well. I went though so many sets of tires in one year. The C4S gives me enough of that track feel in a real world performance car without trying to kill me when conditions are not 100% ideal.
Yes, and all of that is needed to offset the extra 330+ lbs. (3240lbs vs the '99's 2910lbs based on published curb weights.). According to PCA's SPEC996 racing class, the extra 20 HP of the MK IIs is offset by 180lbs. So the C4S would need to lose 130lbs to have equivalent power performance.
The AWD is another limiting factor for any kind of track duty. Vandersmith has a great thread about how to shave 2 secs off of lap times and improve your driving experience by converting a C4S to RWD.
As for the suspension, for daily driving the '99 C2 suspension is pretty nice but for any type of AutoX or DE, I don't think it's on par with the C4S and is the first thing I would upgrade.
But for looks and comfort, the C4S is definitely the way to go IMO.
The AWD is another limiting factor for any kind of track duty. Vandersmith has a great thread about how to shave 2 secs off of lap times and improve your driving experience by converting a C4S to RWD.
As for the suspension, for daily driving the '99 C2 suspension is pretty nice but for any type of AutoX or DE, I don't think it's on par with the C4S and is the first thing I would upgrade.
But for looks and comfort, the C4S is definitely the way to go IMO.
08-04-2016, 12:52 PM
#21
Race Car
I agree. When you get into full blown track animals, then the sky is the limits to any 911. I was generally referring the cars as stock turn key cars with weekend track duties. I did the semi pro track 911 and I can't/won't afford to do it again. It's a massive money pit even when everything is running well. I went though so many sets of tires in one year. The C4S gives me enough of that track feel in a real world performance car without trying to kill me when conditions are not 100% ideal.
!!!!
08-04-2016, 12:54 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Drivetrain loss aside, there have been reviews of the C4S that have shown that while it may be slower than a C2 in a straight line, it is faster around a track. Part of driving fast is braking. Another part is getting the power down to the road. The C4S has the ability to do that better, yes, at the cost of weight. At the end of the day though, we're talking about fractions of a second and preference will largely depend on what the buyer wants. Are they buying it primarily tool around town and maybe (or maybe not) take it on a track or autocross? Will it be a track dedicated car? do they want a garage queen that just looks good? All of those questions (and more) will drive potential buyers in different directions.
-Eric
08-04-2016, 01:05 PM
#23
The benefits of AWD are not limited to the winter.
Drivetrain loss aside, there have been reviews of the C4S that have shown that while it may be slower than a C2 in a straight line, it is faster around a track. Part of driving fast is braking. Another part is getting the power down to the road. The C4S has the ability to do that better, yes, at the cost of weight.
-Eric
Drivetrain loss aside, there have been reviews of the C4S that have shown that while it may be slower than a C2 in a straight line, it is faster around a track. Part of driving fast is braking. Another part is getting the power down to the road. The C4S has the ability to do that better, yes, at the cost of weight.
-Eric
Where the Porsche awd shines in the 996 is that it is less intrusive than other manufactures. You can drive it crazy fast without feeling the negative feel of other awd systems like in a performance Audi.
08-04-2016, 01:09 PM
#24
Race Car
Maybe within the same model year, not sure, but I'll put my money on a stock '99 C2 over a stock C4s on the track any day. There is a reason the Gt3 is a rear wheel drive NB (and naturally aspirated).
08-04-2016, 01:10 PM
#25
Race Car
Anyways, to get back on track, the main point is to test drive both and buy the one you love the most.
08-04-2016, 01:14 PM
#27
It's all what you want your car to do. That's the beauty of the 911, it's absolutely fantastic in any form. It's like we are comparing which super model is best. There is no bad choice providing it's a 911.
08-04-2016, 01:48 PM
#29
Race Car
08-04-2016, 01:49 PM
#30
@slakker: "In the 996 world, newer gets you more comfort but doesn't increase performance or driving experience"
Sure about that? 996.2 gets 80% new internals, a longer stroke, and improved variocam+, yielding more torque across greater bandwidth and 15hp. New fuel supply system has no return line yields cooler fuel, new exhaust reduces back pressure, new bodywork reduces lift, new reinforcements to side sills, roof frame, and floor plan improve torsional rigidity by almost 25% in the coupe. New standard 17" wheels save 8# year over year; the optional 18s (standard on C4S, I think) are 23# lighter than their predecessors, despite being an inch wider.
996.2 : Whether the diff matters or not to the individual used 911 buyer, there's definitely more to it than cupholders...
Sure about that? 996.2 gets 80% new internals, a longer stroke, and improved variocam+, yielding more torque across greater bandwidth and 15hp. New fuel supply system has no return line yields cooler fuel, new exhaust reduces back pressure, new bodywork reduces lift, new reinforcements to side sills, roof frame, and floor plan improve torsional rigidity by almost 25% in the coupe. New standard 17" wheels save 8# year over year; the optional 18s (standard on C4S, I think) are 23# lighter than their predecessors, despite being an inch wider.
996.2 : Whether the diff matters or not to the individual used 911 buyer, there's definitely more to it than cupholders...