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996 3.6L Dyno Results - AWD vs RWD

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Old 08-03-2016 | 03:51 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations
My brother in law makes custom fishing lures. He once told me "Fishing lures don't catch fish, they catch fisherman".
One of the most profitable fishing lure ad campaigns...

Do you remember "Magic Bate" and Jerry Clower?

Hahahah

Old 08-03-2016 | 03:54 PM
  #17  
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Unfortunately these are the two things that majority of RL peeps seem to be looking at. I mean how many threads has there been about intakes/orange cap mod/muffler mod?
Yep.. Even though that intake probably positions the MAF sensor in a position where the engine runs rich at idle speed... Or the air filter sucks in water, and fouls the MAF in the rain.

Also I like how all the new guys in the game are the first to critique welding jobs on exhaust components. They assume if the welds are good, then the product must be good too.
Have they ever welded? Do they know what a sunburn from a Tig welder feels like? Do they even know the 5 essentials or arc welding? Hell no!

That said, the welders that make things look the best are by far the Chinese women... They lay down awesome beads, too bad the material is junk!

Too many people concentrate on the product packaging these days and not the actual substance of what the product was intended for.
Absolutely. In 2011 I worked with a marketing team before I ended up just giving all my developments to LN... They only cared about what the damn box looked like! They pissed me off, and I fired them after wasting 10K on bull**** advice. Who gives a damn about the box?

Give me a raw metal, unfinished, but tested/developed product any day over some shiny, c/f, polished, anodized crap that only serves to look good.
You are one of about the bottom 3%... Give me a hand fabricated, frankenstein looking piece that works, and I'm happy... Thats why we've never made the bolt on stuff; because, no one would buy what actually worked, unless it looked like it worked better than it really did!

Right now I need to develop an X pipe system for my R51 engines with different characteristics than anything else out there due to the internal combination of the engine. It'll look like pure insanity, and it'll have welds that actually have penetration into a material thats not junk... Luckily no one will ever see it!

Last edited by Flat6 Innovations; 08-03-2016 at 05:39 PM.
Old 08-03-2016 | 06:05 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations
Have they ever welded? Do they know what a sunburn from a Tig welder feels like?
Or smelled smoke and eventually realized that some article of clothing was on fire?

The Chinese headers I had on my Boxster for half a Saturday looked fine on the outside, but the collectors inside were tragic. Pulled 'em back off and sold 'em to the next sucker down the line; I hope he learned his lesson too.
Old 08-03-2016 | 06:09 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by 5CHN3LL
Or smelled smoke and eventually realized that some article of clothing was on fire?
Or their own hair, or flesh...

The worst is hot slag chipping off and going into your shoe.. A close second is a spark bouncing around in your helmet and landing inside your ear... That sizzle is unforgettable.

People have no clue... Zero. Doing things with your hands other than typing is so 1900s... Hell, I build everything and buy very little... Tractors, cars, buildings... All of it!
Old 08-03-2016 | 10:01 PM
  #20  
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New Alignment and Corner Balance with help from many here:






Old 08-03-2016 | 10:17 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations
My brother in law makes custom fishing lures. He once told me "Fishing lures don't catch fish, they catch fisherman".
Love that quote! I came from a motorcycle background and this stuff is all too familiar. Great claims from manufacturers, rave reviews of huge power gains from customers, only to see a "real" dyno run that shows where the seat of the pants "huge power" comes from....a HUGE flat spot in the midrange (or somewhere else), that, to the seat of the pants, makes it feel like a huge hit.
Old 08-03-2016 | 10:57 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by JTT
Love that quote! I came from a motorcycle background and this stuff is all too familiar. Great claims from manufacturers, rave reviews of huge power gains from customers, only to see a "real" dyno run that shows where the seat of the pants "huge power" comes from....a HUGE flat spot in the midrange (or somewhere else), that, to the seat of the pants, makes it feel like a huge hit.
The other story comes from Dyno operators that have no background in development... They don't understand OFAAT evaluation (One Factor At A Time) or understand the impacts from coolant, oil and ambient temperatures on the engine output. They test things haphazardly and because if that their basis, and controls are all screwed up.

All they are doing is looking for a "peak HP" figure to go up so the guy that doesn't even know how to read the Dyno graph properly feels accomplished with his purchases.

"Tuners" generally **** me off.. Ask one of them the 4 strokes of a 4 stroke engine in order and see what they do. Guaranteed that 75% of them don't know it by heart... And even more cant explain it.
Old 08-03-2016 | 11:00 PM
  #23  
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This thread got really fun really fast. I've enjoyed the "keep it real" rants. Jake, I've known some engineers that didn't have a drop of marketing blood in their body but I think you just reset the bar. Lol. Now tell us about this R51 you speaketh of.

Vsmith, thanks for sharing your progress as always. Curious though why you didn't go with more negative front camber.
Old 08-03-2016 | 11:34 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Slakker
This thread got really fun really fast. I've enjoyed the "keep it real" rants. Jake, I've known some engineers that didn't have a drop of marketing blood in their body but I think you just reset the bar. Lol. Now tell us about this R51 you speaketh of.

Vsmith, thanks for sharing your progress as always. Curious though why you didn't go with more negative front camber.
I hate marketing... Something that's good doesn't need marketing. There's a difference between product awareness, and marketing... I believe in giving technical specs and a description about how it really works. No bling, no bull****.

I haven't sent out a newsletter for anything more than our technical classes in more than a year.. I stopped updating the website 5 years ago.. We don't employ a single salesperson...

All of this is *** backward from how everyone else does things.

R51 is an engine made purposely smaller, to provide higher outputs than ever before. It's what happens when someone thinks outside the box, and refuses to play the "bigger is better" game. This is my own development, and I've made sure than it can't ever be copied by the others that ride our coat tails looking for a free ride on the development train.

Nothing inside this one is off the shelf, not even the damn head gaskets, which cost 350 bucks each to have custom made.
Old 08-04-2016 | 12:08 AM
  #25  
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That sounds awesome. Since we've already established that we won't be able to read the press release in Panorama maybe you can post some results on here when you complete your initial development.
Old 08-04-2016 | 12:13 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Slakker
That sounds awesome. Since we've already established that we won't be able to read the press release in Panorama maybe you can post some results on here when you complete your initial development.
Press releases are for advertisers only AFAIK.

The development is completed, I just need to complete the exhaust for it to take it to the next level. These engines spin to over 8,000 RPM without an issue.

I've had these on the road for over two years now, recently an owner of a fresh one posted about it in the Boxster/ cayman forum.. Since his is installed into a Cayman S.
Old 08-04-2016 | 12:58 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations
Or their own hair, or flesh...
Heh. When I was learning to weld and happily following directions. While brazing I lifted my goggles and pretty quickly smelled something funny. Then something didn't feel quite right. Took me a good 30 seconds to realize the tip of that nice hot rod was stuck right in the center of my head. Ruined a perfectly good Mohawk and was the last time I ever wore gloves brazing...

The worst is hot slag chipping off and going into your shoe.. A close second is a spark bouncing around in your helmet and landing inside your ear...
My lesson for loose clothing was slag from out of position arc welding. Went down my shirt and I can tell you hot slag on the nipple is not fun. Unfortunately it made me jump and suck in my gut which gave it a new and even more unpleasant place to land. Luckily it was just a glancing blow and the underwear helped, but still not fun...


I really need to get back into welding. Something very peaceful and calming about being isolated from the world in your helmet while concentrating on that perfect bead. Almost as good as SCUBA when all that matters is breathing in and out
Old 08-04-2016 | 04:33 AM
  #28  
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Once I was welding on an old VW when I was about 13... A piece of slag fell onto the fuel hose and caught the car on fire... I was so into what I was doing that I did;t even know it until I felt heat on my right leg and threw the helmet up....

I just pushed it out of the shop and let it burn..
Old 08-04-2016 | 04:33 PM
  #29  
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The biggest(and earliest) mistake I made was trying to be badazz and when the darkening mechanism on my electronic helmet failed, I tried welding the rest as I needed to get it done that day without eye protection(didn't haven any manual helmet/goggles around at the time).

That night I had severe corneal flash burns on both eyes for the whole night. I seriously wasn't sure if I'd ever regain 100% of my eyesight. It was a long night but luckily it returned to normal over the course of the following day. I got REAL lucky for being so dumb.

BTW, I'm pretty sure R51 is going to be a destroked high rpm motor if my memory serves me correctly. Was it some odd number like 3.5L?
Old 08-04-2016 | 10:01 PM
  #30  
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Even though the dyno figures may be off, it's the same dyno so it's a good comparison for before/after. 16whp/10wtq is beyond what I expected from the conversion, very impressive.


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