Well at least you didn't sell your 996 because you found some epoxy in there.

I wish you the best luck in getting everything straightened out as fast and painless as possible.

LN should have been the first place contacted, not Jake at Flat 6. LN has a established protocol and I review every claim personally. There are many instances where the bearing has been blamed when not the cause and also times when the bearing was definitely defective. But to go to the forums first before contacting the manufacturer to review everything in a logical fashion isn't the way to start off this discussion. Who did the install, which bearing was used, what about the shop's warranty, was the job properly qualified, has the engine been torn down and what was found? These are all important questions that must be answered.

LN and Flat 6 are different companies. Jake has helped my company develop and test many of the parts and processes the whole industry benefit from, but we are indeed separate companies.

And yes, we have had bearings fail from time to time in properly qualified engines almost immediately after installation. But this is the exception, not the rule. 20k+ bearings with the oldest in service since 2007, there are no other bearings out there in this quantity with this length of time in service.

But like I said in the other thread, it's near impossible to make an M96 engine fool proof unless you completely change everything, and even then, they do fail on the track, even with all the fixes. You can't make everything 100% bulletproof.

I am the first to try to go the extra mile as any engine failure sucks, but I won't have any part in being flamed on the forums. That's why you don't see me post very often on any of the forums any more and have contemplated leaving them completely.

Hold on a minute....

Maybe I am missed something or misunderstood, but has not Jake Raby on more than one occasion said that NONE of his designed IMSB replacement have ever failed?
Are we talking apples and oranges here? Different products?

Please correct (not flame) me if I am mistaken.

You are mistaken.

We have NEVER has an IMSR that was retrofitted under this roof fail. That means engines that have passed my invasive pre- qualification procedure and receive MY serial number.

What we do is different than what anyone else does, and because of that we benefit from having a flawless record.

OP, it's a tough situation to be in but I agree that your point of contact is the shop and LN, not Flat 6.

As far as the qualification requirements, all I can say is, just look at factory warranty fine-print. If you install any critical component by a non-dealer and you car goes belly up, good luck getting factory warranty. It's the same concept; they'll let you slide on brake pads, but on critical parts, no way.

I am completely new to porsches (had my 996 for roughly a month now), if I wanted your shop to retrofit your IMS, my engine would need to be disassembled and qualify for a retrofit?

First, the conversation with Flatt six was very civil. The guy was very polite and so was I and he promised to get back to me. He just never did. Second, if I should have called LN Engineering, that fact never occurred to the person at Flat Six I talked to. He never said I was calling the wrong place. He never said "oh you need to call LN not us". He never gave me any indication that I had called the wrong place. So if I did, that fact apparently will come as a surprise to the people answering the phones at Flat Six. And if this entire thing is LN's issue and not Flat Six, would it have killed Flat Six to tell me that or call me back or do anything but act like yes it is their issue?

As far as whether I was polite enough, I was plenty polite. And anyone here who thinks I wasn't can go lose a 20+ thousand dollar engine and have the mechanic tell you it was because the part that had been sold to you to prevent this from happening failed and then get back to me on how polite one should be when dealing with the inventors of said part.

The bottom line here is I had an upgraded bearing in what by all accounts was a fine running and known to be well maintained car and it failed. And when I called the company of the guy who invented that part and claims it is so great, they basically politely told me to go "eff myself". They didn't even so much as give me a return call, a gee sorry to hear that or offer any advice. Nothing.

As I said above, if they had called me back and at least appeared interested in how this happened or hell had had someone at LN call me back, I would have nothing bad to say. They failed to show the slightest interest in how this happened and just threw my phone message in the trash.

It is funny, I am apparently important enough to warrant multiple responses and attacks on my character on this board, but I wasn't important enough to give a simple call back. The LN bearing failed in my car and it is my opinion that buying a car with such a bearing was likely a mistake. Any of you can feel free to disagree with that assessment but I have a $25,000 repair bill that says otherwise.

It would have to pass an invasive pre- qualification process that takes a full day to perform. Disassembly of some components is required to complete this pre- qualification.

If the engine did not pas the inspection, then the IMS Retrofit procedure is aborted and the owner receives an in-depth report and consultation from yours truly, stating why the engine wasn't qualified.

At that time, SOME owners choose to have us move forward with repairing the issue, then adding the retrofit procedure to the engine. In other cases the damage is so internal that a repair is not possible without complete engine disassembly. A good case like this was an engine that arrived from an owner who had two 996s, who loved 6 hours away. His first engine passed with flying colors and he loved my process. His second car had a condition that I found as soon as the sump plate was removed, a failed timing chain roller. The car was driven here from 6hrs away and had zero symptoms, it ran perfectly with zero noises. As far as we were concerned, the car was dead in its tracks and should not be started even ONE more time.

That owner chose to have the 32K mile engine disassembled to fit my motorsports, master linked timing chains to it. It had nothing else wrong with it, and we fitted it with an IMS Solution upon completion of the repair.

Thats one example, but many, many more can't see this, they are not qualified and the owner chooses to have us bolt things back together, and all they owe for is the inspection. we lose the business for the retrofit, but thats better than having a single failure to deal with.

The majority do pass the pre- qualification procedure and are retrofitted to love happily ever after. So far the number is up to just over 500 units being installed without a single issue.

I developed the IMS Retrofit procedure on day one, because I knew that so many variables play into the health of an engine post- retrofit.

Today around 40% of engines fail our pre- qualification, and when that number hits 50% for three months, I'll not do any more IMSR procedures, as we will just be wasting our time inspecting engines.

Other shops don't do this... Why? Because they are just installing some part they bought, and they carry no pride. Also, the way normal shops work, the technician makes ZERO dollars unless the work is carried out. I have had techs in my classes tell me that they purposely overlook other issues, because they are not being paid to do more than change the bearing pout. They know if they don't do the work, that their paycheck will be impacted on Friday. Trust that things here do not operate in that manner, and NEVER will. Three sets of eyes ensure the engine is good to go, and I make the final calls.

The day I call you, I will have really good news or really bad news, there is no in- between.

To many shops the IMSR has become too straight forward. They think they have gotten good at them, so they start cutting corners. They claim to have a solid reputation with no issues and dozens of retrofits, when their techs are out to lunch, retrofitting everything that comes in the door. To most it has become "a brake job", or thats how their mentality works.

Further I will also state that NONE of the IMS Solution Certified Installers (not LN Preferred Installers) have seen ANY bearing failures, either. Why? Because they are bound to a code of conduct and must follow my procedure to the T, submitting photos, and even the old bearing for evaluation, post- process. They too "down" engines for IMSR routinely, because if they make a bad judgment call they will lose their Certification, that was hard to earn, including direct evaluations, and attending classes that cost thousands of dollars each.

Get some shop out of the blue to do an IMSR, and you must assume the responsibility for that decision. They have ZERO to lose.


Guess why? Because we've NEVER had someone call us to inquire about an IMSB failure related to an LN component. Jud left this up to me, and he consulted me right away. I was in the middle of assembling a forty thousand dollar engine, and I chose not to risk my customer's engine, to speak to you about a failure that occurred to something that we never touched, on a car that was bought second hand, with a bearing installed by someone that more than likely had no idea what they were doing.

If you have a problem with an LN part, call LN. Thats common sense. Do you call Chevy when your Porsche has an issue? If you do call them, will they care? Common sense told you that was an LN Engineering component, why would you call Flat 6 Innovations? Why would you even consider that?

My company had no dealings with you, or your car. You can't seem to understand that, though everyone in this thread has told you the same thing.

Trust me, I did us both a favor by continuing with my work, and not calling you back.

No, your phone call is logged down with date and time in my logbook, along with a transcript, just like every other call that comes into this facility.

I owed you nothing. I still owe you nothing.

Why would I call you back, only for you to ask me ten- thousand questions about the Porsche replacement engine that Porsche could not answer? Thats exactly what you wanted, and why you are behaving this way.

And we have no way to determine if the car you bought was already a ticking time bomb, or if it had previously had an IMSB failure, and was half way patched up, only to be sold to you as having a fresh retrofit. Thats probably what happened.

Do you have any idea how many people that call here that want to speak to the "Inventor"? dozens per day, and that includes people who have had failures with competing products, that are acting like its an LN part. Some of these people have no idea what IMSB they have, and they want to talk to me anyway. Get this straight, my hands build things, I don't sit behind a desk and I do build engines every day. I am not risking my work for anyone's telephone call.

Sir, you were never my customer, and I owed you nothing. Had I called you back I would have told you things that you DID NOT want to hear, and you would have been even more pissed off than you are now, several weeks later, after not receiving my call back.

That said, guess where I am right now? On a family vacation, where I should be playing with my 3 year old, but instead I am dealing with a grown man that is acting like a 3 year old. I'll accept your apology for being off base, and ruining my day, anytime that you'd like to extend it.

And as far as the install, there is no evidence that the part was not installed properly. Again, it worked fine for nearly 20,000 miles. And the shop that installed it was reputable. Installing these things is not rocket science. And if LN thinks they should only be installed by people they certify, why do they sell them to any shop? I asked Flat six about purchasing a IMS Solution for my replacement engine when I was going to go with a used engine. The guy told me that while they don't sell to hobbyists, they do sell to certified techs, even those who haven't gone through their certification program and any qualified tech should be able to do the install.

That is what they tell you when you are buying the part. When the part fails, then its "well you had it installed by someone who we hadn't certified so you took your chances". Maybe the guy on the phone had it wrong. But that is what he told me. So, I find the whole "it wasn't installed by one of our people" excuse to ring pretty hollow.

I appreciate the detailed response. Will be sending you a PM shortly.

Charles, do LN and Bilt racing service work together? I'm in the Chicago area and assume Bilt can see if my engine is qualified? Obviously trust them as you guys are under the same roof

Thanks for the clarification

No Raby replaced bearings have failed, but LN bearings installed other than by Flat 6 have failed

I stand corrected

Yes. 100% correct

One day we will have one fail too, because many are coming ip on a decade in service all over the world.

Interesting. So the LNE Bearing can and has failed? But not a single one has failed that was installed by Flat 6 because Jake will only install one in a car that has been "pre screened for a bearing".

Jake...If you were in health care you would only see perfectly healthy patients.

With that being said, ignore all of us and go enjoy your family. Vacations are priceless, especially with a 3 year old.