New mode of failure for oil system - car out of commission
07-21-2015, 10:58 AM
#32
Race Director
Funny how you think that is funny. I think the practice of re-using the sealing ring is sad. And the use of some soft deformable washer or "gasket" sadder still.
I'm amazed at how callously some owners tend to their vehicles. And it just further puts me off the owner serviced vehicles for consideration when shopping for another car.
I'm amazed at how callously some owners tend to their vehicles. And it just further puts me off the owner serviced vehicles for consideration when shopping for another car.
07-21-2015, 11:06 AM
#33
Rat Balls
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When I first read this...it gave me a woodie. Seriously though, it beats the hell out of all that talk about "fingering your sump". Seriously though...has Macster ever been wrong?
07-21-2015, 11:15 AM
#34
Race Director
That is not a theory. I would think it obvious that absent any sealant, o-ring or some other sealer that the ring and its two surfaces is expected to create an oil tight seal between the drain plug and the sump.
Additionally the ring must be firm enough to resist compression and further deformation from the heating/cooling cycles to avoid the drain plug from loosening over time.
The called for replacement of the ring is to avoid the deformation the ring gets from the drain plug being tightened from possibly damaging either the drain plug or sump sealing surfaces.
The ring in this case is the sacrificial item with the idea to prolong the life of the two more expensive items: the drain plug and the sump plate.
Additionally the ring must be firm enough to resist compression and further deformation from the heating/cooling cycles to avoid the drain plug from loosening over time.
The called for replacement of the ring is to avoid the deformation the ring gets from the drain plug being tightened from possibly damaging either the drain plug or sump sealing surfaces.
The ring in this case is the sacrificial item with the idea to prolong the life of the two more expensive items: the drain plug and the sump plate.
07-21-2015, 11:20 AM
#35
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New mode of failure for oil system - car out of commission
I honestly cannot believe this discussion exists. Macster is obviously correct. But it is also obviously true that many people don't replace it and few if any engines have exploded as a result.
07-21-2015, 12:33 PM
#36
Race Director
Thread Starter
Only Macster can turn "Just use a new crush ring" into a thousand-word essay involving weeping virgins.
I don't think "callous" and "had to reuse a crush ring because I didn't have one handy" are necessarily equivalent.
If you're operating under the assumption that every service tech out there is more fastidious than every owner who does his own service, you're fooling yourself. Techs don't get paid a ton, and they're often getting harped on to churn through the cars. I have quit using some dealership service departments because of issues ranging from simple mistakes to outright lying on paperwork to skip doing the steps on the "XX point inspections" they love to advertise.
I do not take any of my cars in for brake work - I won't have my wife driving around in a car where the safety equipment was serviced by some guy who doesn't get paid much much, is likely nursing a hangover, and doesn't really give a damn about anything beyond getting the wheels back on and moving on to the next ticket. Sure, there are inept owners out there - but there are also sh*tty techs out there. If I buy a car from a DIY owner, I can get a feel for how capable and knowledgeable that person seems. I get no such impression from a stack of dealer/indie records.
If you're operating under the assumption that every service tech out there is more fastidious than every owner who does his own service, you're fooling yourself. Techs don't get paid a ton, and they're often getting harped on to churn through the cars. I have quit using some dealership service departments because of issues ranging from simple mistakes to outright lying on paperwork to skip doing the steps on the "XX point inspections" they love to advertise.
I do not take any of my cars in for brake work - I won't have my wife driving around in a car where the safety equipment was serviced by some guy who doesn't get paid much much, is likely nursing a hangover, and doesn't really give a damn about anything beyond getting the wheels back on and moving on to the next ticket. Sure, there are inept owners out there - but there are also sh*tty techs out there. If I buy a car from a DIY owner, I can get a feel for how capable and knowledgeable that person seems. I get no such impression from a stack of dealer/indie records.
07-21-2015, 12:37 PM
#37
That is not a theory. I would think it obvious that absent any sealant, o-ring or some other sealer that the ring and its two surfaces is expected to create an oil tight seal between the drain plug and the sump.
Additionally the ring must be firm enough to resist compression and further deformation from the heating/cooling cycles to avoid the drain plug from loosening over time.
The called for replacement of the ring is to avoid the deformation the ring gets from the drain plug being tightened from possibly damaging either the drain plug or sump sealing surfaces.
The ring in this case is the sacrificial item with the idea to prolong the life of the two more expensive items: the drain plug and the sump plate.
Additionally the ring must be firm enough to resist compression and further deformation from the heating/cooling cycles to avoid the drain plug from loosening over time.
The called for replacement of the ring is to avoid the deformation the ring gets from the drain plug being tightened from possibly damaging either the drain plug or sump sealing surfaces.
The ring in this case is the sacrificial item with the idea to prolong the life of the two more expensive items: the drain plug and the sump plate.
I do know that "crush" washers have been used several years in several cars. I call them and will often refer to the crushing abilities to maintain seal. As such, they should all be soft aluminum as stated. Do I replace them every single time? No. Do I get a leak if I don't replace them everytime? No. Do I use a torque wrench? Only when I'm working on vital parts of the engines like Cylinder heads/blocks.
I don't really see making this trivial than it has to be but that is the good ol fashion RL way.
Bottom line: Since the oil pan on the 996 is aluminum, better attention needs to be paid in tightening the oil bolt. One should not overtighten it to compensate for the lack of seal on using either a substandard washer or a used washer that can't compress any more without going over the torque limit that the pan/bolt was meant to handle.
07-21-2015, 12:45 PM
#38
Race Director
Thread Starter
I sent photos of the drain plug off to a forensic engineer buddy because I thought he'd find it interesting. He did. "Verrry Interestingggg! It looks to me like a low cycle fatigue failure. Note the angled fracture surface. A 45 degree angel would be the shear plane for the plug."
I'll stick to new aluminum plugs at every change a filtermag from now on. I have no interest in wondering whether the damn oil plug will crap out...
I'll stick to new aluminum plugs at every change a filtermag from now on. I have no interest in wondering whether the damn oil plug will crap out...
07-21-2015, 03:37 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Jeez Louise
The washer is all of .97 cents!
Next time you place an order with __________(insert parts company), order a few and you will always have one available
You spend $60-$140 for a DSY oil change, you can't spare a buck???
The washer is all of .97 cents!
Next time you place an order with __________(insert parts company), order a few and you will always have one available
You spend $60-$140 for a DSY oil change, you can't spare a buck???
07-21-2015, 04:35 PM
#40
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I replace my oil filter like every two or three oil changes because it costs like $8. Now your telling me I should replace the plug washer every time too? My wife is going to kill me when she finds out how expensive my oil changes are going to be now. She is going to make me sell the car...oh my oh my!
I have nothing else to add..........
I have nothing else to add..........
07-21-2015, 04:42 PM
#41
If I'm not mistaken, the oil pan and the entire engine case for that matter is aluminum. Needless to mention, the drain plug has to be a softer aluminum in order to be more giving during over-torquing. This way you're replacing the plug vs the pan. So of-course it will need to be replaced priodically regardless of who makes it.
07-21-2015, 04:50 PM
#42
I've also seen a few mashed crush washers that have been clearly used many, many times.
07-21-2015, 06:18 PM
#43
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While there are many excellent techs out there I've found that there are an equal number of mechanics (dealer and indy) who cut corners, break things, leave fasteners loose as well as lie to the owner of the car about its condition.
I've also seen a few mashed crush washers that have been clearly used many, many times.
I've also seen a few mashed crush washers that have been clearly used many, many times.
07-21-2015, 06:32 PM
#44
Race Director
Thread Starter
This thread was intended to provide info on the magnetic oil drain plug breaking into two pieces. If you have any questions about that subject, please feel free to PM me and I'll provide whatever info I can.
After reviewing my records, I believe that my 996 was equipped with the magnetic drain plug when I purchased it, so I am unable to determine which manufacturer's plug it is.
Since this thread has devolved into a pissing contest about crush rings, I deem it too stupid to continue living. I'm pulling a JI and locking this bish.
After reviewing my records, I believe that my 996 was equipped with the magnetic drain plug when I purchased it, so I am unable to determine which manufacturer's plug it is.
Since this thread has devolved into a pissing contest about crush rings, I deem it too stupid to continue living. I'm pulling a JI and locking this bish.
07-21-2015, 07:39 PM
#45
Race Director
Thread Starter
Uncorked by popular demand. Let the tarding begin...er, resume...
I believe it is OK to reuse your crush ring if you have it resurfaced. This is probably the most economical way to proceed.
I believe it is OK to reuse your crush ring if you have it resurfaced. This is probably the most economical way to proceed.