Researching the 996
04-13-2015, 05:43 PM
#1
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Researching the 996
I've been reading up on the 996 and its various potential problems. The IMS issues is the big attention getter for sure. I've been reading up on that and on possible preventative maintenance (replacing the bearing wiht a ceramic one, etc.).
My research has now shifted to "what if it all goes wrong anyway and the motor goes boom?" I'm seeing that new porsche motors are $17k and require an $18k core charge? Wow. I currently track a miata, which is the consumate cheap track car. If my engine blows, I can grab a spare used one for $5-600 or so and be back on track with no major drama. After searching the net, I was expecting to see threads about how you can grab a used engine for $6k or so and pay another $1.5k and get the 996 back on its feet. Is that not the case? I *think* I could handle replacing an engine for $7k if it was a rebuilt, good to go motor. But if it's way worse than that, I don't think I'm up for that at this time... I'd love to have a C2, but I'm trying to go into this with open eyes...
And, for proof that I'm a p-car fan, I'm attaching a picture of my miata track car.
Thanks
My research has now shifted to "what if it all goes wrong anyway and the motor goes boom?" I'm seeing that new porsche motors are $17k and require an $18k core charge? Wow. I currently track a miata, which is the consumate cheap track car. If my engine blows, I can grab a spare used one for $5-600 or so and be back on track with no major drama. After searching the net, I was expecting to see threads about how you can grab a used engine for $6k or so and pay another $1.5k and get the 996 back on its feet. Is that not the case? I *think* I could handle replacing an engine for $7k if it was a rebuilt, good to go motor. But if it's way worse than that, I don't think I'm up for that at this time... I'd love to have a C2, but I'm trying to go into this with open eyes...
And, for proof that I'm a p-car fan, I'm attaching a picture of my miata track car.
Thanks
04-13-2015, 05:53 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
IMO and at work watching files run...
If you're buying one used pay attention to how it sounds, how it feels, and what it does. If you buy one that sounds great, doesn't smoke, and drives well then you can start to get around some of the rebuild issues you may have otherwise encountered.
If you're really concerned about the bearing, and can do work yourself, and are using it as a track car, then it may be worth buying the best one you can and dropping the engine as soon as it's home. Then there aren't as big of worries about anything, and you have a chance at that point to do work or upgrade things as needed.
If you're buying one used pay attention to how it sounds, how it feels, and what it does. If you buy one that sounds great, doesn't smoke, and drives well then you can start to get around some of the rebuild issues you may have otherwise encountered.
If you're really concerned about the bearing, and can do work yourself, and are using it as a track car, then it may be worth buying the best one you can and dropping the engine as soon as it's home. Then there aren't as big of worries about anything, and you have a chance at that point to do work or upgrade things as needed.
04-13-2015, 06:02 PM
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I should have mentioned that it would just be a daily driver with no track time. The miata is the track car.
I'm trying to understand how much $ an IMS failure ends up costing.
I'm trying to understand how much $ an IMS failure ends up costing.
04-13-2015, 06:04 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
MoonieGT, no $7k engine replacement is not the case for 996. $10k+ is the low end of the scale. Jake Raby charges $20k+ for his rebuilds.
There are people on this board who lost engines at 20k miles, at 100k miles and anywhere in-between. Some going fast, others while idling, others because they live up-north. IMS is just one of the issues that can take out your engine. There are at least couple of threads on the first page about people who lost their motors, and those were low mileage and well maintained cars.
Coming from the Japanese-car background, the reality of the 996 ownership will be a bit of a shock. Everything on the 996 is much more expensive than on the miata. On a lot of 996s, engine now costs more than the car.
There are people on this board who lost engines at 20k miles, at 100k miles and anywhere in-between. Some going fast, others while idling, others because they live up-north. IMS is just one of the issues that can take out your engine. There are at least couple of threads on the first page about people who lost their motors, and those were low mileage and well maintained cars.
Coming from the Japanese-car background, the reality of the 996 ownership will be a bit of a shock. Everything on the 996 is much more expensive than on the miata. On a lot of 996s, engine now costs more than the car.
04-13-2015, 06:13 PM
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Three Wheelin'
04-13-2015, 06:14 PM
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I certainly didn't expect any parity in the pricing for the miata and the 996. I was hoping for a 10x increase. It's looking to be more of a 30x or more increase on replacement engine pricing. Tire, rotor, brake pad, oil change pricing appears to be doable, but not the engine. In the battle of the head vs heart, my head may have to prevail.
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04-13-2015, 06:17 PM
#8
Race Director
If you pick up a 996 for $25K, you may have an awesome 911 to drive for many years. Unfortunately, there is a chance, albiet not a massive chance, that your engine will suffer some kind of failure. Maybe it'll be a problem that only requires a $4-5K "repair" - new bearings, for example, and maybe it'll be the kind that adds an extra hole to the block and/or turns the stuff inside into really expensive oily metal scrap.
If the engine dies spectacularly, your options are a used engine (market price), a refurbished engine ($10K+), a completely rebuilt engine($$$$$), selling the car as a roller (you get $5-6K back), and something wacky like an LSx transplant (totally unrealistic if you're in a state with smog *****).
If owning an awesome $80-100K car for $20-30K is worth the potential risk, there is a lot of 996 inventory out there.
If you are not risk-tolerant in this manner, sticking with imports and/or something you can drop a Chevy crate motor into may be preferable.
Incidentally, asking this question in this manner rather than looking for assurance that something awful will never happen to YOUR car is preferable. As often as not, people show up here, read about possible issues, buy a car anyway, and then start posting threads either pleading for non-existent evidence indicating that their specific 996 will never have any issues, or (more entertainingly) belligerently insisting that any publicized 996-related issues are lies. All lies! I prefer your approach.
Ultimately, it comes down to what you want. If you want a 300HP sports car, there are loads of them out there. If you want a 911, though, the 996 is an incredible buy.
If the engine dies spectacularly, your options are a used engine (market price), a refurbished engine ($10K+), a completely rebuilt engine($$$$$), selling the car as a roller (you get $5-6K back), and something wacky like an LSx transplant (totally unrealistic if you're in a state with smog *****).
If owning an awesome $80-100K car for $20-30K is worth the potential risk, there is a lot of 996 inventory out there.
If you are not risk-tolerant in this manner, sticking with imports and/or something you can drop a Chevy crate motor into may be preferable.
Incidentally, asking this question in this manner rather than looking for assurance that something awful will never happen to YOUR car is preferable. As often as not, people show up here, read about possible issues, buy a car anyway, and then start posting threads either pleading for non-existent evidence indicating that their specific 996 will never have any issues, or (more entertainingly) belligerently insisting that any publicized 996-related issues are lies. All lies! I prefer your approach.
Ultimately, it comes down to what you want. If you want a 300HP sports car, there are loads of them out there. If you want a 911, though, the 996 is an incredible buy.
04-13-2015, 06:26 PM
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I'm a 2-3 HPDE events a year guy. My risk taking is minimal and is further insulated by driving one of the cheaper track cars in existance. I could buy another miata and upgrade the car with tires, wheels, suspension, roll bar etc for what it sounds like a replacement 996 engine goes for 
More research to be done. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
More research to be done. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
04-13-2015, 06:37 PM
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The other car(s) on my short list of relatively affordable German cars is the M3. The e46 has its share of issues (vanos, rear sub frame), but may actually be affordable (but not cheap) to fix compared to the 996. The e90 M3 is tempting, but it has a big $ motor in it as well. But a high reving V8...
04-13-2015, 06:52 PM
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No argument there. A friend has had: 996 Turbo S Cab, 997 Turbo Cab, 997 GT3, 991 GT3 (current car). They're all magnificent. I've been a Porsche fan since about 15 years old (34 in a month). I keep thinking that someday I'll pick up a used one. 996s are very affordable at first glance. I'm fine with the general maintenance costs, and even with paying $4k in preventative IMS work... but knowing that it will be 5 figures if the car has a bad day is a tough pill to swallow.