[QUOTE]Originally posted by drafting
Regarding the comment about PAG struggling - it does not appear that the corporation is hurting financially, I never said Porsche was struggling financially ...so I am not not quite certain how that made it this dialogue. I did say- Posche is struggling like every car manufacturer today to sell as many cars as it can just to stay alive as company. You said- they are taking a hit on sales as a percentage of overall production capacity, just like almost every other manufacturer.
Same thing ...right?

I agree totally There is absolutely a limit as to how many different base models that a company the size of Porsche can produce well and at a profit, while enabling the dealer network to offer a high level of quality sales and service (and that isn't perfect now). Addition of a sedan or real 2+2 may make market sense, but PAG shouldn't allow the brand to become too diluted.

I really don't want to start up a sh!tstorm here. It's just my opinion. So, ..... When I was a teen, a neighbor had a 928, pewter-colored as I recall. But am I the only person on the planet that thinks that the 928 body styling looks like a hybrid of an AMC Pacer rear and the front end of a Hot Wheels die cast toy? I felt that way then, and even though I am now a Porsche lover, I still feel that the body styling is very unattractive. So it goes without saying in my book that producing a new car that even somewhat resembles the old 928 body style would be a mistake with fundamentally negative implications. No disrespect intended, but everyone gets to have their opinion. The AMC Pacer , Tony Lapine (the designer of the 928), and the 928 do have a relationship. I cannot locate what that relationship was in my library of information about the 928 but i do know it is a fact. However, you should also know that the 928 is among the most copied body designs in the history of automobile making. Yes, fact! Additionally, when you look at you 996 today and your 993 (bumpers) this design was inspired by the 928. In my humble opinion Tony Lapines 928 body design is quite timeless and looks very stunning even today. Should Porsche do another car that looks like yesterday's 928? Naaaa that would just be way too cheesy, but you can bet that there will, if it is ever is built, (like the 911's headlamps) be a small semblance of the 928 characteristic styling packaged into the next car. All that would be necessary would be taking ideas from the 996 which carried forward the 928's rather round body style (the conept car 989 designs was the next 928 and evolved into the 996) in the front and the back. Look closely these cars are very similar to each other.

 

 

The corvette is way out of line with the average buyer of a geo tracker but it is still sold as the performance flagship of gm. The 928 may have been intended originally as the successor to the 911 but that changed when reality of production costs hit the fan, so it became an additional limited production vehicle and lets face it, it was an exotic beating the lambos, astons, and most ferraris of its day. These marks are flourishing today and so would an updated 928 to that same privileged crowd. Who says it would have those features - The Market says. As for the HP increased displacement and supercharging like the new jag. As far as the weight i feel as though that is a strength because i like the heavy solid perfectly distributed feel of the car on twisty roads. When i drove 911's i was always told about losing it in a corner because you would end up a passenger not a driver and looking the wrong way. Unlike some of the 911 owners here i like both cars. Ferry porsche also made tanks.
Tom

 

Uh... Pat Edwards , you need to chillout...

 

I had a response for this but elected not to send it...Ever hear that saying- Never get into an argument with an fool becuase people watching may not be able to tell the difference?

I chose to bow out on responding here.

 

I do huh? Did I hurt your feeling tonight?

 

There is no doubt that forward thinking is a key characteristic for any sucessful working body. As I said, and you've reiterated, the 928 has many fine points that make it a worthy automobile. When examined a piece at a time, ignoring the package as a whole, the 928 has contributed more than a few features to the full line of Porsche automobiles. Justly so, and in some ways, the 928 almost appears to have been a technology testbed even as it went through its production cycle. But there is no reasonable comparison to be made that puts the 928 of old and 911 of today onto the same page in terms of aesthetics or performance. As Tom (TV) pointed out in an earlier post, the essential 911 has been around for forty years. There is continuity in purpose, and a huge amount of change, that has occurred during those decades. While the 928 had its time in the sun, and was necessarily a component of Porsche's continued development, the 911 was around long before the 928, and will undoubtedly be around for quite a time to come.

As to the AMC Pacer, I think that it is a butt-freakin'-ugly vehicle that was a result of a great many contrary issues, not the least of which were engine development problems and the energy crisis in the '70s. I should have been more clear on that one. Mr. Lapine was a critical player in many wonderful automobile designs (the Pacer quite thankfully not being one of them!), such as the development of the Corvair Monza and Corvette Stingray. I don't think that he had anything to do w/ AMC, as Porsche grabbed him from GM (Opel, I think).

Jeff

 

Photos of the 989

 

$ = corporate survival. Semantics, whatever; I've got no reason to imply anything. No need to be sorry, you've got that one covered quite well without any help from me. This is just a friendly little message board, and each individual's perception is their own (sometimes not so) private reality.

The German automakers have collaborated on vehicles for quite some time now. I remember seeing SL500s having mechanicals and assembly performed at Zuffenhausen back in the early '90s. That is just the way it is. As far as "getting consumed " goes, who knows? If the Porsche and Piëch families feel that it is in the best interests of the marque and the majority of shareholders to sell out, perhaps to AMC (oops, the Pacer already helped put them out of business ) or some other corporate entity, then so be it.

___________________________________________________________
I Hmmmm, I will pass on reponding to this. Except to ask, when is the last time you purchased a new Porsche at the dealership?
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Why stop now, you have such a way w/ self expression! At any rate, hmmmmm, let me see......... oh yes, this past July and I pick it up four weeks from last Friday! yeeeeeehah!!!


Jeff

 

Pat:

You are correct with your earlier statement that the 928 is one of the most copied designs. It (along with the 944) had profound influence on many automakers styling themes (and buyers).

Some responses from the 996 faithful are quite amazing with their tunnel vision. As if the only type of car Porsche should build would be a flat six in the rear. How boring! Remember the days when you could stroll through the dealer and choose from: 911's, 24's, 44's, 28's. The majority of the line up was front engined based. Their flagship was the 928, and it also was the fastest car of the bunch. You'll aways have your flat six in the rear, but different strokes for different folks. Porsche currently doesn't have enough different strokes.

Just wondering. When Porsche does get smart to diversify their line up and utilize an existing engine that could easily crank out 500 HP, could I come over and wip some donuts on your 40 acres?

Don 928 King

 

Yes, Don as many of my 928 brethren already know I have alot of books of fact on the the 928 at which I can base my information on and few of my 996 faithful brethren are not as fortunate but seemingly are experts on this topic. Oh well, no need to bat that one around...the point I am attempting to make is Porsche had only one reason that it needed to discontinue the 928- it simply did not sell. Just as Jim Bailey from 928 International recalled this statement by Ferry Porsche- " they built what they would like and hoped it would sell in the case of the 928 ....it did not sell well . "

I believe there is a market for a front engined V8 in the line up but Porsche would struggle to get it there and the price point for such a vehicle may be outside the scope of affordability of many thereby again relegating it to the-"far to expensive Posche Sport/GT" car that will compete with cars that are built like crap but perform (Viper, Z06's- don't forget we have the new Cadillac XLR arriving with a Z06 engine for $80K) and those that are like the 575 Maranello, and AM DB8 Vanquish. Additionally, we still have the 911 crowd that traditionally buy in this price range- the GT3RS & GT2 buyers- will they too buy this car or reject it? There simply has not not been a demand from Porsche buyers for a car to compete in that range. However a joint venture between perhaps VW and Porsche to build a car that at a pricepoint in between the Cayennes could perhaps open a can of worms where several scenarious could play out

A- A new Porsche at the same price point of a 996- confusion and invite your new Porsche customer to consider other competing automobiles manufacturers simultaneously devastating 996.

B- Since you would have to depend on marketing to the Porsche loyal to prevent the above scenario from happening...the newly introduced car would again be relagated to limited markeing effort

C- A new market emerges for these automobiles from Porsche and sustains itself for several years...anticipate problems just because they will happen...cars break, especially the newly introduced ones. Can the dealer infrastructure support the increased demand for servicing these vehicles and if not will Porsche have to expand its capability there. Mercedes, BMW and, Audi offered positively invaluable experience in this area and for the customers (for moi, I had the unfortunate experience of both Audi and BMW) that were on the opposite side of the counter waiting 3-6 weeks for parts and service appointments are not likely to become repeat or loyal customers. Porsche has a loyal customer base (996 and 968) that it does not want to disenfranchise itself with. Stepping into a new model will have to be accompanied by well planned processes and undertstanding the demands for anticipated service.

d- Lets assume the above released car is "perfect" and rarely taxes Porsches existing service resources as a new car. We should probably accept that the new customer for the front engined V8 will be simply that- "a new type of profile customer" or, former 928 buyers with new Porsche buying power. If so how does this impact sales for production of ordinarily what would be a new or first time buyer Porsche at current production levels coupled with sinking valuations on current 996's and Boxsters they are becoming easier to obtain- when you factor in all these variables how do you adjust current production levels to reflect the market demand for each. Just in time manufacturing works well for Honda but Porsche does not build cars that way. The Porsche is still to some degree a hand built car despite the implementation of technology on the production line. How does Porsche forecast the market for this new car and consider the impact on existing models?


OH by the way, Don't forget to Vote and sign the petition to "bring back the front engined V8" on the 928 board.

 

I could not let this go, from above"
If production had continued (say no economic downturns since 1990), then the current 928 would have 475 hp, paddle shifters, active suspension, wider rubber, etc" ((THAT WAS ME))
OH Yea??? Says who? Although, I would put good money on a 400HP 928 had it remained alive today, there was no indication of such big jumps in normally aspirated HP increases for the 928 after the 345HP GTS. AND with F1 paddle shifters, wide rubber and... anything else on the dream list? Oh, by the way, when would you be able to crack open your wallet and afford such a monster of Porsche. The 928 was already far to expensive for the wallets of many people"((That was Nutz))

Below is what he believes we should petition for;
Standard- HP output490 HP @ 7000 rpm
Torque 563.5 Nm @ 5000 rpm
Transmission- 6 speed
wheels-255/40 ZR 18
Rear Wheels- 295/35 ZR 18
Brakes- both fixed calipers in aluminium alloy
Front -6 pistons with differentiated diameters 1.5 in./1.8 in.cross drilled discs, diameter 13 in.
Rear- 4 pistons with differentiated diameters 1.2 in./1.3 in., cross Drilled discs, diameter 12.2 in.
Car weight- 3600lbs

Options-
2+2 seating
rear passenger sport seats
carbon fiber console
PCCB (Ceramic Brakes)
PSM
AWD

You do need to CHIIL out and get your PERSONALITIES in order.

Tom

 

How would the four door in the foto do for ya?

 

A 911 turbo goes 100 mph in third?

I would've thought there test drivers would be skilled enough to threshold brake without ABS!

 

I would think a 911Turbo could see 100 in second.