geeky

Hey Everyone,

I'm looking at upgrading my cooling system in prep for the upcoming season. I'm looking at doing a new waterpump, belt, thermostat, coolant flush, and a 3rd radiator.

That being said, I'm currently looking for the lower operating temp thermostat (160*F) and the only ones I can find are the ones NOT in the housing. Can I purchase one of these and utilize my current housing, or do I need to find one that is in a new housing?

I've been looking on LN's website for the lower operating temp thermostat and can't find it and I've found the insert on multiple places for a very good price.

TL;DR - Can I use the same thermostat housing and replace just the thermostat with a new lower operating temp one, or do I need to look for one that is complete with the housing?

geeky

Pretty much, can I just buy link 1 or do I need to buy link 2?

http://lnengineering.com/160f-low-te...e-install.html

http://lnengineering.com/160f-low-te...nc-gasket.html

Rubik

I always wonder what's the reason for LTTS. Isn't it better for the engine to reach optimum operating temperature more quickly? Cuz the fans aren't going to kick in at 160*F anyway; or do they? I'm just curious on the rationale.

Ahsai

With housing here http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/..._pg1.htm#item3

Or use a $17 tool here to remove the insert
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...WATPMP_pg3.htm

Or fabricate your own tool.

Ahsai

Have you read the Hartech paper? http://www.hartech.org/docs/buyers%2...20part%205.pdf

Starts at about page 21. Bottomline, the low temp thermostat will lessen the "heat stress" inside the engine under normal (non constant speed) driving conditions. Your engine will spend more time at lower temp on average.

Rubik

Thank you! You're always a good resource. I'll read it. But I bet most haven't.

Only one thing: Somebody said - and I don't know who - that if the oil temp is below a certain temp constantly, it's lubricating ability is impacted resulting in cylinder wear. True or false? Not applicable?

Ahsai

I think you may be referring to fuel dilution and excessive moisture in engine oil if the oil can't get to its normal operatimg temp to burn off those. That is correct so the low temp thermostat is definitely not recommended for ppl who drive short trips.

Hurdigurdiman

I have a lower temp thermo in mine which I installed about 6 months ago. I never run the engine unless I am travelling at least 10 miles anyway. More or less a DD.

Macster

Yes, it is. Installing a LTTS in one of these engines -- any engine -- is about the dumbest move one can make.

Testing has found engine wear increases quite dramatically as engine oil temperature goes down. This is not at engine start but after engine start while the engine is just running, doing its job.

The t-stat is there to ensure the engine warms up within a reasonable time. Once up to temperature the air flow through the radiators controls the coolant temperature.

At some point this is helped by the radiator fans.

If you are uncomfortable with the max. coolant temperature and oil temperature your engine is manifesting under hard usage you need to consider more/better cooling. Adding a 3rd radiator and implementing a more aggressive radiator fan regime is what Porsche does when a car needs more cooling.

'course, the above is more difficult to do while installing a LTTS is relatively easy.

dporto

I know this has been discussed/argued forever, but I need to add my $.02 anyway... Once a thermostat reaches it's opening temp. and opens, it no longer controls anything (i.e. - water/coolant to engine block coolant passages) the water/coolant simply flows through it. It has no effect on the overall operating temperature of the engine except for taking longer to reach said temperature. Am I missing something here? Oversimplifying perhaps? I've read all kinds of "explanations" both here and on Renntech and none of them directly address this question - only sort of dance around it. It seems to me only the radiators can directly affect cooling.

Paul Waterloo

A thermostat still controls engine temperature when it's open, it can close if it gets too cold or full open once it gets above a certain set point. If you didn't have one in the car, it would not get to normal operating temperature in most ambient conditions, or at least the cooler ones.

b-man

I think there are a lot of gross generalizations stated in this thread. But I'll add one more.

A car engine's thermostat opening temperature (and steady state engine coolant operating temperature), has a lot to do with lower emissions, not necessarily lower engine wear. Higher temperatures generally means lower emissions. But it also means oil will thin out (you can get more wear) and other consequences.

Would a car company want lower emissions at the expense of engine longevity? Of course they would. Most modern car engines run hot, and that is done for emissions reasons.

b-man

BAD.TAG

I know we arent talking about "racing" engines per say, but given that both Hartech and Raby recommend the LT stat, I have to think there is some logic to this.

Hartech sums it up as follows:

WE CAN OFFER A LOWER TEMPERATURE
THERMOSTAT THAT WILL MINIMISE OR HOPEFULLY ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM.

This basically runs the engine cooler by about 12 to 15 degrees Centigrade (21 to 27 Degrees Fahrenheight) and (at a temperature more similar tothat which most racing engines (and more traditional older designs of sports engines) are run at. It makes no difference to theinterior heating system and actually slightly increases power output but the main benefit isthat when the car is driven under full power – even though the system as a whole is still comparatively slow to respond to sudden coolant temperature increases – the thermostat has now fully opened before the original normal running temperature has been reached (which increases coolant speed) and protects the pistons by lowering their temperature ofthe hottest ones and by this increasing the oil film strength


If you want to read more start on pg 40 here - http://www.hartech.org/docs/buyers%2...20part%205.pdf

Ahsai

I knew this thread would go nowhwere as there are nothing new to discuss.

Not sure why Macster felt the urge to call ppl dumb. To me, Jake Raby and Hartech are far from dumb. My used oil analysis actually shows LESS wear after low temp thermostat install, definitely not MORE wear.

alpine003

One thing that hasn't been discusssed too much in other low temp threads is gas mileage. Gas mileage could go down a bit using lower temp thermostat. Don't believe me? Trying running one without a thermostat and report back on your gas mileage.

My factory spec one has been doing just fine in my engine for the past 125k miles. I don't feel a need to fix something that ain't broke, but that's just me.