My first week of ownership observations
12-10-2014, 12:58 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
My first week of ownership observations
My 02 Coupe was delivered from Raby last week and this is my short list of observations:
1. It appears that the window of its limits is huge, but once you approach the end it ends FAST. I haven't done this yet, because only street driving, but I can feel it. I am coming from a track day setup S2000. The S2000 is ALWAYS nervous, always ready to change direction. I felt I was on the edge all the way up to its limit. Had to get comfortable with the nervousness (although it calmed down a lot with aero.). So, I can tell that my first track day in the 996 will be faster than my S2000, but no where near the limits of the car yet. I can see why people have a false confidence with the 996, especially with PSM on. On the street, the limits are so high and makes you feel like you are a good driver, but I can easily see the challenge to drive this at 8/10 on the track. (Most HPDE drivers do not drive at 10/10, if you think you do, you are not.)
2. Heal toe with the bottom hinge pedal is different. I heal toe two different ways. When using normal sneakers my foot is wide enough to do toe-toe. Basically rotating on the middle axis of my foot. When in my driving shoes, the bottom hinge pedal allows me to place my foot higher on the brake pedal and do a typical heal toe motion at the top of the gas pedal. I also find that if I am pushing on the bottom of the pedal (like a normal car), I can bog the car some. I have to get used using my whole foot on the entire gas pedal.
3. Coming from Japanese cars, the radio and heater controls are not intuitive to me. I will have to study the manual to figure it out. Most rental cars or other cars, I am in the car and figure most of the features out immediately. This car is just laid out different. Not worst, just different.
4. I am assuming my CD player works. I haven't tried it. Feel no need for music at the moment. I just turn on public radio/NPR when commuting and that is about it.
5. My neighbors have minivans that cost more than my car (even with the Raby motor), but I am not telling them. The amazing thing about the shape of a 911, most people can't tell the difference between a 1999 or a 2014 unless the cars are side by side. I am one of those, I buy a car to drive the nonsense out of it. I will do this with this car, but it is a "nice" and "luxury" car, so I will probably start to do far away park thing, etc. Just to avoid people. If you read the Jalopnik article about the guy who bought a Ferrari and how he hated the exotic car experience, I can somewhat understand now.
6. Torque is nice. (Remember, I am coming from the torqueless 4 cyl world). Torque allows you to steer the rear end of the car with the throttle, nice get away from lower speeds, etc. etc. I can see how coming out of turns torque is such a great tool. Everyone always thinks about horsepower, give me torque. I now know why big motor or diesel or hybrid race cars must be a wonder to drive.
7. People are amazed that this is a family car. My son (he is 5) fits nice in the back. He LOVES the car. The best part of ownership is being able to drive a car that I LOVe with my wife and son. Previous cars either didn't have the seats (Miata/S2000), too loud (S2000) or I hated it and it was slow (my old TSX, current Prius and MDX). The 911 is a strange beast. It is not a sports car, but it is. I don't really know any other car like it. A newer Mustang or BMW can be faster and has a back seat, etc., but I don't think they are sports cars. They are FAST (and heavy) cars, but not sports cars. Then you say what about the Vette? No back seat, so not in the same class. Hard to explain. This car just feels right.
Probably other stuff, that I cannot think of right now. But, having fun.
1. It appears that the window of its limits is huge, but once you approach the end it ends FAST. I haven't done this yet, because only street driving, but I can feel it. I am coming from a track day setup S2000. The S2000 is ALWAYS nervous, always ready to change direction. I felt I was on the edge all the way up to its limit. Had to get comfortable with the nervousness (although it calmed down a lot with aero.). So, I can tell that my first track day in the 996 will be faster than my S2000, but no where near the limits of the car yet. I can see why people have a false confidence with the 996, especially with PSM on. On the street, the limits are so high and makes you feel like you are a good driver, but I can easily see the challenge to drive this at 8/10 on the track. (Most HPDE drivers do not drive at 10/10, if you think you do, you are not.)
2. Heal toe with the bottom hinge pedal is different. I heal toe two different ways. When using normal sneakers my foot is wide enough to do toe-toe. Basically rotating on the middle axis of my foot. When in my driving shoes, the bottom hinge pedal allows me to place my foot higher on the brake pedal and do a typical heal toe motion at the top of the gas pedal. I also find that if I am pushing on the bottom of the pedal (like a normal car), I can bog the car some. I have to get used using my whole foot on the entire gas pedal.
3. Coming from Japanese cars, the radio and heater controls are not intuitive to me. I will have to study the manual to figure it out. Most rental cars or other cars, I am in the car and figure most of the features out immediately. This car is just laid out different. Not worst, just different.
4. I am assuming my CD player works. I haven't tried it. Feel no need for music at the moment. I just turn on public radio/NPR when commuting and that is about it.
5. My neighbors have minivans that cost more than my car (even with the Raby motor), but I am not telling them. The amazing thing about the shape of a 911, most people can't tell the difference between a 1999 or a 2014 unless the cars are side by side. I am one of those, I buy a car to drive the nonsense out of it. I will do this with this car, but it is a "nice" and "luxury" car, so I will probably start to do far away park thing, etc. Just to avoid people. If you read the Jalopnik article about the guy who bought a Ferrari and how he hated the exotic car experience, I can somewhat understand now.
6. Torque is nice. (Remember, I am coming from the torqueless 4 cyl world). Torque allows you to steer the rear end of the car with the throttle, nice get away from lower speeds, etc. etc. I can see how coming out of turns torque is such a great tool. Everyone always thinks about horsepower, give me torque. I now know why big motor or diesel or hybrid race cars must be a wonder to drive.
7. People are amazed that this is a family car. My son (he is 5) fits nice in the back. He LOVES the car. The best part of ownership is being able to drive a car that I LOVe with my wife and son. Previous cars either didn't have the seats (Miata/S2000), too loud (S2000) or I hated it and it was slow (my old TSX, current Prius and MDX). The 911 is a strange beast. It is not a sports car, but it is. I don't really know any other car like it. A newer Mustang or BMW can be faster and has a back seat, etc., but I don't think they are sports cars. They are FAST (and heavy) cars, but not sports cars. Then you say what about the Vette? No back seat, so not in the same class. Hard to explain. This car just feels right.
Probably other stuff, that I cannot think of right now. But, having fun.
12-10-2014, 01:07 AM
#3
Not a sports car? I say it is the very definition of one!! And I have owned 4 vettes and a Miata which I also consider sports cars and BMW M3 which i do not. This car is more of a pure sports car than any of my previous cars and several of those were dedicated track / race car including a C4 corvette road race car.
I am new to the 996 as well coming also from a long track background with camaros and corvettes and BMWs. Completely different beast, I am looking forward to getting mine out on the track. 99 C2. Mainly bought as a street car and half time daily driver to share duties with my M5.
Welcome and congrats and I look forward to hearing about future exploits!
I am new to the 996 as well coming also from a long track background with camaros and corvettes and BMWs. Completely different beast, I am looking forward to getting mine out on the track. 99 C2. Mainly bought as a street car and half time daily driver to share duties with my M5.
Welcome and congrats and I look forward to hearing about future exploits!
12-10-2014, 01:30 AM
#4
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Very interesting observations
Looking forward to following your progress with the car.
I was seriously considering the S2000 and test drove many, agree about the twitchiness.
The Miata is an awesome car dynamically but so underpowered vis a vis the 996, and both S2000 and Miata feel gutless by comparison.
Curious if your progression will be similar to mine.
Enjoy!
I was seriously considering the S2000 and test drove many, agree about the twitchiness.
The Miata is an awesome car dynamically but so underpowered vis a vis the 996, and both S2000 and Miata feel gutless by comparison.
Curious if your progression will be similar to mine.
Enjoy!
My 02 Coupe was delivered from Raby last week and this is my short list of observations:
1. It appears that the window of its limits is huge, but once you approach the end it ends FAST. I haven't done this yet, because only street driving, but I can feel it. I am coming from a track day setup S2000. The S2000 is ALWAYS nervous, always ready to change direction. I felt I was on the edge all the way up to its limit. Had to get comfortable with the nervousness (although it calmed down a lot with aero.). So, I can tell that my first track day in the 996 will be faster than my S2000, but no where near the limits of the car yet. I can see why people have a false confidence with the 996, especially with PSM on. On the street, the limits are so high and makes you feel like you are a good driver, but I can easily see the challenge to drive this at 8/10 on the track. (Most HPDE drivers do not drive at 10/10, if you think you do, you are not.)
2. Heal toe with the bottom hinge pedal is different. I heal toe two different ways. When using normal sneakers my foot is wide enough to do toe-toe. Basically rotating on the middle axis of my foot. When in my driving shoes, the bottom hinge pedal allows me to place my foot higher on the brake pedal and do a typical heal toe motion at the top of the gas pedal. I also find that if I am pushing on the bottom of the pedal (like a normal car), I can bog the car some. I have to get used using my whole foot on the entire gas pedal.
3. Coming from Japanese cars, the radio and heater controls are not intuitive to me. I will have to study the manual to figure it out. Most rental cars or other cars, I am in the car and figure most of the features out immediately. This car is just laid out different. Not worst, just different.
4. I am assuming my CD player works. I haven't tried it. Feel no need for music at the moment. I just turn on public radio/NPR when commuting and that is about it.
5. My neighbors have minivans that cost more than my car (even with the Raby motor), but I am not telling them. The amazing thing about the shape of a 911, most people can't tell the difference between a 1999 or a 2014 unless the cars are side by side. I am one of those, I buy a car to drive the nonsense out of it. I will do this with this car, but it is a "nice" and "luxury" car, so I will probably start to do far away park thing, etc. Just to avoid people. If you read the Jalopnik article about the guy who bought a Ferrari and how he hated the exotic car experience, I can somewhat understand now.
6. Torque is nice. (Remember, I am coming from the torqueless 4 cyl world). Torque allows you to steer the rear end of the car with the throttle, nice get away from lower speeds, etc. etc. I can see how coming out of turns torque is such a great tool. Everyone always thinks about horsepower, give me torque. I now know why big motor or diesel or hybrid race cars must be a wonder to drive.
7. People are amazed that this is a family car. My son (he is 5) fits nice in the back. He LOVES the car. The best part of ownership is being able to drive a car that I LOVe with my wife and son. Previous cars either didn't have the seats (Miata/S2000), too loud (S2000) or I hated it and it was slow (my old TSX, current Prius and MDX). The 911 is a strange beast. It is not a sports car, but it is. I don't really know any other car like it. A newer Mustang or BMW can be faster and has a back seat, etc., but I don't think they are sports cars. They are FAST (and heavy) cars, but not sports cars. Then you say what about the Vette? No back seat, so not in the same class. Hard to explain. This car just feels right.
Probably other stuff, that I cannot think of right now. But, having fun.
1. It appears that the window of its limits is huge, but once you approach the end it ends FAST. I haven't done this yet, because only street driving, but I can feel it. I am coming from a track day setup S2000. The S2000 is ALWAYS nervous, always ready to change direction. I felt I was on the edge all the way up to its limit. Had to get comfortable with the nervousness (although it calmed down a lot with aero.). So, I can tell that my first track day in the 996 will be faster than my S2000, but no where near the limits of the car yet. I can see why people have a false confidence with the 996, especially with PSM on. On the street, the limits are so high and makes you feel like you are a good driver, but I can easily see the challenge to drive this at 8/10 on the track. (Most HPDE drivers do not drive at 10/10, if you think you do, you are not.)
2. Heal toe with the bottom hinge pedal is different. I heal toe two different ways. When using normal sneakers my foot is wide enough to do toe-toe. Basically rotating on the middle axis of my foot. When in my driving shoes, the bottom hinge pedal allows me to place my foot higher on the brake pedal and do a typical heal toe motion at the top of the gas pedal. I also find that if I am pushing on the bottom of the pedal (like a normal car), I can bog the car some. I have to get used using my whole foot on the entire gas pedal.
3. Coming from Japanese cars, the radio and heater controls are not intuitive to me. I will have to study the manual to figure it out. Most rental cars or other cars, I am in the car and figure most of the features out immediately. This car is just laid out different. Not worst, just different.
4. I am assuming my CD player works. I haven't tried it. Feel no need for music at the moment. I just turn on public radio/NPR when commuting and that is about it.
5. My neighbors have minivans that cost more than my car (even with the Raby motor), but I am not telling them. The amazing thing about the shape of a 911, most people can't tell the difference between a 1999 or a 2014 unless the cars are side by side. I am one of those, I buy a car to drive the nonsense out of it. I will do this with this car, but it is a "nice" and "luxury" car, so I will probably start to do far away park thing, etc. Just to avoid people. If you read the Jalopnik article about the guy who bought a Ferrari and how he hated the exotic car experience, I can somewhat understand now.
6. Torque is nice. (Remember, I am coming from the torqueless 4 cyl world). Torque allows you to steer the rear end of the car with the throttle, nice get away from lower speeds, etc. etc. I can see how coming out of turns torque is such a great tool. Everyone always thinks about horsepower, give me torque. I now know why big motor or diesel or hybrid race cars must be a wonder to drive.
7. People are amazed that this is a family car. My son (he is 5) fits nice in the back. He LOVES the car. The best part of ownership is being able to drive a car that I LOVe with my wife and son. Previous cars either didn't have the seats (Miata/S2000), too loud (S2000) or I hated it and it was slow (my old TSX, current Prius and MDX). The 911 is a strange beast. It is not a sports car, but it is. I don't really know any other car like it. A newer Mustang or BMW can be faster and has a back seat, etc., but I don't think they are sports cars. They are FAST (and heavy) cars, but not sports cars. Then you say what about the Vette? No back seat, so not in the same class. Hard to explain. This car just feels right.
Probably other stuff, that I cannot think of right now. But, having fun.
12-10-2014, 02:07 AM
#5
Racer
Thread Starter
The plan for this car will be
1.breaking in the motor over the next few thousand miles. Just want to make sure it is good and seasoned.
2. Maybe during the break in process, install the PSS10,roll bars and PFC pads that I have in the garage waiting.
3. Go through a set of tires and probably get some RS3v2 tires ( I will probably stick with my 17" OEM wheels. I am not necessarily a fan of big wheels.)
4. Double Din radio, maybe with NAV and Bluetooth, not sure.
This is about it for the first year or two. Aero would be nice, but I doubt it. I went too "track" car on my former S2000 and it was an AMAZING track car but a HORRIBLE street car.
The S2000 is a great, great car. Amazing autocross car. Amazing track car with appropriate modifications. In stock form, it is not a hard car to live with. The back shelf can hold tons of stuff. Trunk is large enough. But, you have to be the type of person that enjoys shifting a lot like most 4 cyl cars. Owning this 996 blows me away that I can accelerate in 5th gear. I have never owned a car that could do this. To accelerate in the S2000 always requires a downshift.
1.breaking in the motor over the next few thousand miles. Just want to make sure it is good and seasoned.
2. Maybe during the break in process, install the PSS10,roll bars and PFC pads that I have in the garage waiting.
3. Go through a set of tires and probably get some RS3v2 tires ( I will probably stick with my 17" OEM wheels. I am not necessarily a fan of big wheels.)
4. Double Din radio, maybe with NAV and Bluetooth, not sure.
This is about it for the first year or two. Aero would be nice, but I doubt it. I went too "track" car on my former S2000 and it was an AMAZING track car but a HORRIBLE street car.
The S2000 is a great, great car. Amazing autocross car. Amazing track car with appropriate modifications. In stock form, it is not a hard car to live with. The back shelf can hold tons of stuff. Trunk is large enough. But, you have to be the type of person that enjoys shifting a lot like most 4 cyl cars. Owning this 996 blows me away that I can accelerate in 5th gear. I have never owned a car that could do this. To accelerate in the S2000 always requires a downshift.
12-10-2014, 02:35 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
If you want to do track days on the car, the two things that really liven up a US spec C2 are stiffer springs and a more aggressive (GT3-spec) alignment....
The factory just puts quite a bit of push into these cars to try and protect drivers from themselves. Easy enough to dial it back out though.
I bought the S2000 when it was introduced in 2000... A cool car, fun on the track, though the lack of power made it a bit frustrating on open track days where corner passing is frowned upon. If you weren't on a technical track, you'd get held up through the technical sections and just have to keep trying to get a good enough exit and late enough braking to pass a higher hp car that was slower in the twisties... I don't miss it for a second though.
The 996 (and now CaymanS) are IMHO much more 'complete' performance cars.
The factory just puts quite a bit of push into these cars to try and protect drivers from themselves. Easy enough to dial it back out though.
I bought the S2000 when it was introduced in 2000... A cool car, fun on the track, though the lack of power made it a bit frustrating on open track days where corner passing is frowned upon. If you weren't on a technical track, you'd get held up through the technical sections and just have to keep trying to get a good enough exit and late enough braking to pass a higher hp car that was slower in the twisties... I don't miss it for a second though.
The 996 (and now CaymanS) are IMHO much more 'complete' performance cars.
12-10-2014, 07:47 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
My 02 Coupe was delivered from Raby last week and this is my short list of observations:
7. People are amazed that this is a family car. My son (he is 5) fits nice in the back. He LOVES the car. The best part of ownership is being able to drive a car that I LOVe with my wife and son. Previous cars either didn't have the seats (Miata/S2000), too loud (S2000) or I hated it and it was slow (my old TSX, current Prius and MDX). The 911 is a strange beast. It is not a sports car, but it is. I don't really know any other car like it. A newer Mustang or BMW can be faster and has a back seat, etc., but I don't think they are sports cars. They are FAST (and heavy) cars, but not sports cars. Then you say what about the Vette? No back seat, so not in the same class. Hard to explain. This car just feels right.
Probably other stuff, that I cannot think of right now. But, having fun.
7. People are amazed that this is a family car. My son (he is 5) fits nice in the back. He LOVES the car. The best part of ownership is being able to drive a car that I LOVe with my wife and son. Previous cars either didn't have the seats (Miata/S2000), too loud (S2000) or I hated it and it was slow (my old TSX, current Prius and MDX). The 911 is a strange beast. It is not a sports car, but it is. I don't really know any other car like it. A newer Mustang or BMW can be faster and has a back seat, etc., but I don't think they are sports cars. They are FAST (and heavy) cars, but not sports cars. Then you say what about the Vette? No back seat, so not in the same class. Hard to explain. This car just feels right.
Probably other stuff, that I cannot think of right now. But, having fun.
Well I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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12-10-2014, 10:38 AM
#10
SSK will add quite a bit more enjoyment to both street and track experience. If your motor mounts are worn, I'd recommend poly mounts too which will bring another level of performance as well without making it a "horrible" street car. Been there, done that too. 
12-10-2014, 01:18 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
I totally get sense you have for the 996 vs the S2000 / Miata. Back in 1999-2000 I was shopping around for a front engine, two-seater ragtop (pretty much what I was shopping for when I scored the 996) I gave a good look at the S2000, but lucked into a cancelled order for an M roadster. Man I loved that car...
The 996 is definitely more versatile...but, I think the M was more visceral. But that might just be nostalgia talking
R
The 996 is definitely more versatile...but, I think the M was more visceral. But that might just be nostalgia talking
R
12-10-2014, 02:44 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Opinions and expectations vary, but out of the cars I've owned...
Handling:
Miata < Z3 3.0 < S2000 w/ coilovers < 996.2 (w springs & gt3 alignment) < 987 CS stock PASM
Power:
Miata < S2000 < Z3 3.0 < 987 CS < 986.2
Handling:
Miata < Z3 3.0 < S2000 w/ coilovers < 996.2 (w springs & gt3 alignment) < 987 CS stock PASM
Power:
Miata < S2000 < Z3 3.0 < 987 CS < 986.2