drfatz

I've owned P-cars and Lotus cars alike and now I'm in the market for a good 996 C2 to turn into a race car. I've found a 99 996 which has been used as a track car for a bit so it has lightweight flywheel, exhaust, H&R coilovers, factory aero, and factory LSD...all things i was looking to do. The owner claims to have extensive service records by a local shop and he has recently done the IMS and RMS, clutch and flywheel. My issue...he's asking $23k for a car that has done a decent amount of track work and has 110,000 miles. The mileage scares me coupled with the track use as the last thing I need is to get the car and have it pop an engine or blow a gearbox.

Curious what those with more experience with these cars thinks about a higher mileage 996 that has seen track duty...bad decision?

Thanks!

johnireland

If you are building a "race car" you should be considering a new engine anyway. You are going to spend a lot of money no matter what because that is what racing a car costs. He's done a lot of work and also enjoyed the car. If you find a car that never has been on the track you are facing the same risks and you are still going to spend the money setting the car up. 110,000 miles is not a lot of miles. If the car has been cared for then you can't consider track miles any more abusive than the car being driven at high speeds on regular roads. The engines are meant to be used and the rpms limits are meant to be reached. Driving the car should give you a feel for the transmission and how the car pulls, a leak down test should show you the condition of the rings and compression. And if you put the car on the track, and it breaks, maybe it would be because of something you did, not the prior owner. The only cheap racing I know of is renting gokarts.

Barn996

If your plan is to use it as a race/track car then you'd want coil overs, race clutch, roll bar, added 'lightness', spare wheels/tires, larger brakes etc.. Many would suggest that race cars are constantly being inspected and serviced so they would be a good choice. I think you need to look at it car by car,overall condition and track readiness.

5CHN3LL

Well, you could spend that much on a car you don't know the history of, or this one, where you KNOW what's been done to it and at least have a good idea that it's been properly maintained.

Since it sounds set up largely for what you want to use it for, you could get a PPI done, and pay attention to stuff like the leakdown tests to see if it seems solid. 100,000 miles is a LOT for a track car (OK, 100,000 mile track cars don't exist), but realistically how many of those miles were racked up at the track? 100? 500? Maybe a thousand?

Once you start pushing any machine up to full capacity, you run the risk of breaking something. Sure, this one has already taken some abuse at the track - but on the other hand, you know that it has held up under that use.

My biggest concern would be the lightweight flywheel, given what Jake Raby and some others have written about deleting the dual-mass flywheel resulting in broken crankshafts...if this is actually a real phenomenon (which I have no reason to doubt), I'd probably pass on a motor I know has been running a LWFW.

Here's a link to a Flat Six page showing what a lightweight flywheel appears to have done to a 3.6 x51. You can also see on that page that this motor did 12,000 track miles before dying, which suggests to me that the M96 can be a little more robust than many folks give it credit.
http://flat6innovations.com/index.php/broken-crank

Here's a snippet of text from the same page discussing the lightweight flywheel's possible complicity in crank failure:
"In one instance the owner of the car had experienced FOUR broken crankshafts in a period of eight months with his 996 track car. These four failures consumed a total of 4 different engines, the one constant that remained between all of these engines was the re-use of the same flywheel, clutch and pressure plate assembly. That assembly was of "lightweight single mass" nature, just like the one we have illustrated and discussed within this article."

c4racer

I raced with NASA for a few years in a so-called budget series. I paid $3500 for the car and spent less than $1K finishing it to my liking. The key elements in a race car are the safety items - how good is the roll cage, who built it, etc.

But no matter what you spend on the car, there is no such thing as cheap racing, and budget series are anything but budget, I guess everything is relative. We ran on Toyo spec tires that lasted a whole season. We used stock drivetrains and stock style suspensions and spec brakes, so all of that tended to be pretty robust. I spent almost nothing on the car during the few years I raced it because it came with some spares - tires and brakes are the main consumables. But even still it costs about $1K a weekend to go racing. So completing an entire NASA series is easily $10K+ per year.

I realize that isn't what you were asking, but just sharing some experience about the costs of racing.
Now add to that the cost of building and maintaining a 911 race-car?
Wow - now that is something I would want NO part of personally.

Just some food for thought.

alpine003

Sometimes racecars tend to be in better shape than neglected street cars. I would ask for all service receipts, do compression/leak down tests, check the cylinders with boroscope, check for any previous accidents, check all bushings/ball joints/mounts, check shifting to make sure synchros work well and you don't get any popouts, expect to send LSD out for rebuild and/or different ramp rates, check discoloration of calipers.

Ask owner if he had anything done to help with high g oiling issues like accusump, oil pan mods, etc. as that will add to the cost if you have to do it yourself.

Also, is this 3.4 or 3.6 and what year?

Does the price include any spares?

How many engine hours for strictly racing?

Barn996

Good info.

pfbz

The factory LSD friction plates are likely completely gone by 100K miles and will need a full rebuild if you want it to function as an LSD...

Personally, I'd suggest getting a completely unmodified street car for $5K less and doing the mods you want yourself, or buying an fully built 996 track car done by a race shop. A 'half-track' car is asking for problems.

drfatz

Lots of excellent food for thought and I REALLY appreciate it! I'm checking out the car this weekend and I will see what the story is. He races a BSR and also a 944 with the 996 being his "street" car. He is a national PCA instructor as was the PO before. It was maintained by a local shop which I need to get on the horn with tomorrow.

It is a 99 996 with the 3.4

I'll have to factor in an LSD rebuild as well as a leakdown test. I'm sure when I drive the car (having owned one many moons ago) I will be able to tell a lot about what is going on. Curious about the lightweight flywheel issues people have been having.

I recently got in touch with a guy who is selling an entire GT3 suspension with Moton springs/shocks so unless this car is in really good shape and I can get it for cheap, I'll probably pass and find a lower mileage, well kept car and do the build myself.

I understand it is ALWAYS cheaper to buy a race car...but as an automotive engineer I love the hunt and the build almost more than the result!

rayng

race car or not, i don't think that's expensive at all. $23k for a factor aero with nice mods. mileage is high but with extensive service history, you'll know the condition of this car. if you decide to part and sell the mods, you can recoup some of your money to spend on tires, proper suspension, maybe clutch and lsd.

johnireland

Of course there is also the "earn your mods" method. Drive the car the way it is until you can't find or coax another 1/10th of a second out of it...and then think about your upgrades based on what will improve you lap times the most...is it in the turns or on the straights. Then repeat the process with the new mod(s) until your best laps earn you more mods. In the end it puts the premium on the cheapest part in the car...the driver.

drfatz

Haha of course! As it turns out I just got out of racing an 2009 Lotus Exige S260 Cup car so I'm looking to bring the 996 up to the highest standard for suspension/brakes/tires. Don't care too much about power. I plan to strip her down to a bare shell to shed as much weight as possible.

I did the math and $23K is a bit much for a 996 with 110,000 on the clock even with these upgrades. I spoke with the shop who has been taking care of the car since 2007 (started @77k miles) and it has been well looked after, but does need a few things going forward. Mainly it will need a major service, LSD rebuild, and a fuel line replaced (apparently there is a hole...) also I intend to replace the cam chain guides. We shall see what happens!

I will be sure to report back.

gwhaley

drfatz, if you're in the US and don't mind a tiptronic car, I have something you may be interested in. 1999, C2 coupe, Tip, black. 93k. In need of some TLC, but nice car and less than half of the 23k you were talking about with the other car, which allows for a lot of $$$ to be spent on the things YOU really want. pm me for full details or look for the ad in the classifieds over the next couple days.

Here are some photos if you are interested. https://rennlist.com/g/album/2605016