Seller failed to disclose a lien...
09-10-2014, 04:52 PM
#31
Instructor
Thread Starter
Of note: I do not have a deposit on the car. I offered to paypal the seller $1k or so as a deposit, but he said it was not necessary. My only outlay so far is the $120 on the PPI.
I really do like the car... has factory Aero kit, LSD, full leather, and a unique color. And, other than the lien being paid off, there seem to be no issues on it...
I really do like the car... has factory Aero kit, LSD, full leather, and a unique color. And, other than the lien being paid off, there seem to be no issues on it...
09-10-2014, 04:52 PM
#32
Still a potential nightmare with the car registered in state A, buyer in state B and seller moving to state C. Good luck getting it figured out if the seller is as flaky as he's been. Not gonna happen without some major expenditure on YOUR part. If nothing else, every time you look at the car you'll be annoyed and you can't even register and insure it without the title.
Walk away. The fact that the car is financed already makes it shaky IMO, it's a FIFTEEN-year old car, right? I know not everyone has the cash to buy one outright but if the seller was financing this and still does not have it paid off from whenever he bought it, I'm guessing he was skimping on other stuff as well, no matter what the PPI says. I know, he could be totally fine, but there are plenty of these cars out there. Make the seller work for the sale, not you.
Oh, and the cherry on top is no disclosure of equipment replaced with aftermarket. Forget it, it's not worth the aggravation. Get the deposit back and move on. Call your bank now and cancel the check or Paypal or whatever you used.
EDIT - OK, I just saw your post from a minute before mine, that would make me a bit more comfortable I suppose. Still not a slam dunk though.
Walk away. The fact that the car is financed already makes it shaky IMO, it's a FIFTEEN-year old car, right? I know not everyone has the cash to buy one outright but if the seller was financing this and still does not have it paid off from whenever he bought it, I'm guessing he was skimping on other stuff as well, no matter what the PPI says. I know, he could be totally fine, but there are plenty of these cars out there. Make the seller work for the sale, not you.
Oh, and the cherry on top is no disclosure of equipment replaced with aftermarket. Forget it, it's not worth the aggravation. Get the deposit back and move on. Call your bank now and cancel the check or Paypal or whatever you used.
EDIT - OK, I just saw your post from a minute before mine, that would make me a bit more comfortable I suppose. Still not a slam dunk though.
09-10-2014, 04:54 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
You and the local RLister are the best judge of the seller's character etc. After speaking with the CU and verifying some things as you did, I wouldn't hesitate to proceed as specified below.
Pay the CU directly. Have a Bill of Sale specifying who you paid what, what should happen with the title, etc. Be sure you include all of the seller's obligations in the Bill of Sale. Then make it happen.
Pay the CU directly. Have a Bill of Sale specifying who you paid what, what should happen with the title, etc. Be sure you include all of the seller's obligations in the Bill of Sale. Then make it happen.
09-10-2014, 05:00 PM
#34
Race Director
Another vote for this. If you really like the car and want to proceed, escrow is a good idea.
Have the car held by a third party. It will be held until both the seller and buyer inform the holder that the release can proceed. Third party gets all the keys and (non-released) title. Verify that the seller has a policy to cover all perils while the car is stored.
Get on a conference call with the seller and the lien holder. Have the seller authorize you as a party allowed to work with the lien holder.
Get a payoff quote from the lien holder. Send them the payoff. Get a lien release in exchange.
Deduct the payoff from the sales price. Give that to the seller in exchange for their release by the person holding the car.
Take all the paperwork to your local DMV. There may be hoops to jump through there.
Get on a conference call with the seller and the lien holder. Have the seller authorize you as a party allowed to work with the lien holder.
Get a payoff quote from the lien holder. Send them the payoff. Get a lien release in exchange.
Deduct the payoff from the sales price. Give that to the seller in exchange for their release by the person holding the car.
Take all the paperwork to your local DMV. There may be hoops to jump through there.
09-10-2014, 05:01 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Yeah, this isn't hard. You don't release the funds to the seller, you release the lien amount to the CU and the balance to the seller. It's not like this is the first car in the history of the world to be sold with a loan balance outstanding.
09-10-2014, 05:03 PM
#36
Race Director
Bottom line is you have zero guarantee that he will pay off the loan. My guess is that "probably" he will, and he needs the money from the sale to do so. Depends on your risk tolerance. If he flakes, you are screwed.
09-10-2014, 05:05 PM
#37
I disagree but I know thats your opinion only.. You dont know the person's priority and you dont know his situation. I rather have a payment of $350-$400 / month and have $30k in the bank as backup funds in case I loose my job, than $0 in the bank and a full paid car. Imagine if you loose your job, the bank will take your house in no time. I pay my car monthly and do all the maintenance like the book.
. I got the initial impression that A) the guy was already flaky in regard to returning calls and B) was not telling buyers that the Audio was replaced and C) did not mention that he had a loan that needed to be paid off.
I assume that in YOUR situation if you were hypothetically selling YOUR car you would be happy to use your $30k in the bank to pay it off, get the title and then cash the buyer's check rather than making the buyer wait for the title. My money would not be leaving my pocket if the keys did not come with a signed title attached to it. This seller apparently does not have $9500 available to pay off the loan. Worst case if I were him I would take a cash advance on my credit card to get the title released.
I get that selling the car may not be the guy's priority but either you want to sell or you don't. A buyer is going to hope that you make it a priority, after all, you're the one who advertised it for sale.
09-10-2014, 06:08 PM
#39
Rat Balls
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Depending on the State (whether lien holder or title holder) there will also be a lag between the loan being paid off and the Buyer receiving a clear title they can register with their DMV.
If every used car sales transaction required the loan to be paid off in advance there would be a heck of a lot fewer used car sales.
09-10-2014, 06:08 PM
#40
- Seller fails to disclose key pieces of the sale
- Old pics were used in his sales ad
- Wasnt too accurate about the audio
-PPI done by the same place he serviced the car, let alone a business name with the word "Trucking" in it.
Even if you get the title straightened out, I'm not sure how much of a risk you want to take with any hidden or other undisclosed issues.
Just don't come crying here in a few months if something goes wrong.
Good Luck!
- Old pics were used in his sales ad
- Wasnt too accurate about the audio
-PPI done by the same place he serviced the car, let alone a business name with the word "Trucking" in it.
Even if you get the title straightened out, I'm not sure how much of a risk you want to take with any hidden or other undisclosed issues.
Just don't come crying here in a few months if something goes wrong.
Good Luck!
09-10-2014, 06:38 PM
#42
Race Director
Ultimately, you have a better vantage point and can make a better judgment call than a bunch of dudes on the interweb. Keep us posted on which way you decide to go and how it works out.
09-10-2014, 06:39 PM
#43
I've done this before in a long distance transaction. Get the bank to act as the third party.
Are you flying in to collect the car? You can come in with a check for certified funds, and do the transaction at the bank. They refund the difference to the seller and sign off on the title. They even have notaries right there...
Long distance is a little more complex, but process is the same. Have the bank handle the logistics.
Are you flying in to collect the car? You can come in with a check for certified funds, and do the transaction at the bank. They refund the difference to the seller and sign off on the title. They even have notaries right there...
Long distance is a little more complex, but process is the same. Have the bank handle the logistics.
09-10-2014, 06:43 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
As DT said above,
If you really like the car, paying the CU lien to release the title makes sense and is done everyday.
The 996 I bought last year had a CU lien. The seller and I went down to the CU, I paid the whole amount which cleared the lien and put the balance of funds in the sellers account.
The only difference which might be a bit complicated is that you reside in a different state than the car and seller are in.
Perhaps call the selling state's DMV and find out how the process of title transfer goes in your situation.
As far as the seller not disclosing things, you should determine for yourself if that's a deal killer regardless of the opinions of us Rennlisters.
If you really like the car, paying the CU lien to release the title makes sense and is done everyday.
The 996 I bought last year had a CU lien. The seller and I went down to the CU, I paid the whole amount which cleared the lien and put the balance of funds in the sellers account.
The only difference which might be a bit complicated is that you reside in a different state than the car and seller are in.
Perhaps call the selling state's DMV and find out how the process of title transfer goes in your situation.
As far as the seller not disclosing things, you should determine for yourself if that's a deal killer regardless of the opinions of us Rennlisters.
09-10-2014, 07:41 PM
#45
Drifting
This whole would be transaction stinks, run!
Sounds like a desperate buyer meets a desperate seller.
Don't be that guy.
He should have mentioned very early on as soon as you expressed serious interest that he does not own the car. (Wholly) And there is a lien that needs to be satisfied before the car can be sold. If you were still interested, he should be willing to work with you and have a bank/CU or escrow service step in and work out the terms so all parties are protected.
Sounds like a desperate buyer meets a desperate seller.
Don't be that guy.
He should have mentioned very early on as soon as you expressed serious interest that he does not own the car. (Wholly) And there is a lien that needs to be satisfied before the car can be sold. If you were still interested, he should be willing to work with you and have a bank/CU or escrow service step in and work out the terms so all parties are protected.