996 and the average joe
Banned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,697
Likes: 31
From: Chicago
I've never paid so much for parts until I got a Porsche but I also know if you wanna play, you gotta pay.
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,968
Likes: 2,342
From: Cleveland Georgia
You just have to understand that being able to afford the purchase of the car is much different than being able to afford to own the car.
Today we see lots of people who have bought 996s at great prices, but when they experience some form of failure they can't afford to repair the car and are forced to sell it. We call those "Bankrupt cars".
Its happening much more often with GT3 and Turbo models, because they are selling too cheaply these days and everything with those cars costs more than a standard Carrera. Lots of guys are stepping up to those models and away from the Carrera only to find that playing in those leagues is something they can't afford to do.
Hell, I just bought a Ferrari that was "bankrupt" because it needed a major engine- out service and wasn't even broken.
Today we see lots of people who have bought 996s at great prices, but when they experience some form of failure they can't afford to repair the car and are forced to sell it. We call those "Bankrupt cars".
Its happening much more often with GT3 and Turbo models, because they are selling too cheaply these days and everything with those cars costs more than a standard Carrera. Lots of guys are stepping up to those models and away from the Carrera only to find that playing in those leagues is something they can't afford to do.
Hell, I just bought a Ferrari that was "bankrupt" because it needed a major engine- out service and wasn't even broken.
Rocky Mountain High
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From: Kolorado
I don't think that maintaining a car according the manufacturer's recommendations and fixing it when it breaks makes someone a "glass half empty" kind of person. If I was that kind of person, then I would have sold my 996 a long time ago. Any car with over 135K miles on the odometer is going to need some maintenance. Things wear out. Things break. This is true for any car.
I don't think it would make me a "glass if half full" kind of guy if I skipped out on recommended maintenance or looked for the cheapest way to repair the car to save a few pennies.
I don't think it would make me a "glass if half full" kind of guy if I skipped out on recommended maintenance or looked for the cheapest way to repair the car to save a few pennies.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,539
Likes: 195
From: IA
What would the Ford dealer charge to replace, say, a 3.5L EcoBoost twin-turbo motor on an F150 that's slightly out of warranty?
A Civic MAF can be bought for $50. A water pump for a '99 Civic is $28 at O'reilly's. The 996 is a great car, but claims that they don't cost more to maintain are simply not true. Parts cost more, and labor costs a lot more.
What do those parts cost on a three-year-old Mustang GT with the Cyclone motor?
If "average joe" can swing it, comfortably, he should absolutely be on board with the 996. If average joe can swing it, but barely, it's a stupid financial decision.
I bought my 996 assuming it would be reliable but with the understanding there was a non-negligible chance it could wind up a $30k roller. Even if I got $10 for the roller, I'd be out $20k if the engine went and the core was bad. There were MANY years, which I think are my "average joe" years, where that kind of loss would have been catastrophic. Thus, I rate the 996 "average joe attainable, with reservations."
I bought my 996 assuming it would be reliable but with the understanding there was a non-negligible chance it could wind up a $30k roller. Even if I got $10 for the roller, I'd be out $20k if the engine went and the core was bad. There were MANY years, which I think are my "average joe" years, where that kind of loss would have been catastrophic. Thus, I rate the 996 "average joe attainable, with reservations."
That said, I think some of y'all are getting screwed on the repair/maintenance costs. I take the manual over to my wrench every year and point to the page showing the maintenance, he grunts and does the work and hands me a reasonable bill. I must be the luckiest 996 owner in the world.
Rocky Mountain High
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Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Kolorado
I think that my mechanic charges a reasonable rate compared to the dealer. He uses quality aftermarket parts when appropriate and his hourly rate is the same for our Porsches or our Audis. One thing to consider is that for many people, it's worth paying for the maintenance as opposed to doing it yourself. I make more money working than the money that I would save doing my own maintenance.
As I mentioned above, my annual costs include disposables. My C4S is my daily driver, and it sees about 10K miles per year. Between winter tires and summer tires, I seem to buy a new set or at the very least new rears every year. Last year's high total included a new clutch, new IMSB from LN Engineering, new tires, new battery, new lower control arm and a host of routine maintenance items. It all adds up...
As I mentioned above, my annual costs include disposables. My C4S is my daily driver, and it sees about 10K miles per year. Between winter tires and summer tires, I seem to buy a new set or at the very least new rears every year. Last year's high total included a new clutch, new IMSB from LN Engineering, new tires, new battery, new lower control arm and a host of routine maintenance items. It all adds up...
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 18
From: Miami, FL
my 4th year of ownership just passed and honestly one of the lower maintenance cars I have owned. One alternator replaced, one window regulator, one of my radiator fans is on its way out now, done brake pads twice and after 72k miles need rotors other than that it has been oil changes religiously and tires. If I have a catastrophic failure on any modern car it is going to be expensive are Porsche parts and service more than regular car. Yes. Does my car give me exponentially more pleasure to drive than a regular car? YES! Good enough for me.
Last edited by MiamiC70; Aug 22, 2014 at 07:58 PM.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,913
Likes: 25
In 13 years and 70k the big bill by far has been the tires. Other than that and oil we've had:
2 RMS replacements (under warranty)
1 clutch (replaced during the second RMS so we only paid for the part)
5 window regulators (only 2 that we've had to pay for)
3 or 4 batteries
Carrier plate for the steering wheel airbag.
Turn signal stalk.
1 or 2 sets of plugs.
A few air filters
3 cabin filters
The 6yr/60k was put off until it was 12, but the belt was replaced before that.
2 sets of rotors and 5 or 6 sets of pads.
And I need to replace the cowl cover and lower seal on the windshield.
It's reliability and low cost of ownership (compared to what I expected) was the big reason I went with my Cayenne when I needed a new/bigger SUV.
2 RMS replacements (under warranty)
1 clutch (replaced during the second RMS so we only paid for the part)
5 window regulators (only 2 that we've had to pay for)
3 or 4 batteries
Carrier plate for the steering wheel airbag.
Turn signal stalk.
1 or 2 sets of plugs.
A few air filters
3 cabin filters
The 6yr/60k was put off until it was 12, but the belt was replaced before that.
2 sets of rotors and 5 or 6 sets of pads.
And I need to replace the cowl cover and lower seal on the windshield.
It's reliability and low cost of ownership (compared to what I expected) was the big reason I went with my Cayenne when I needed a new/bigger SUV.
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Race Director
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10,424
Likes: 229
From: SOcialist republic of CALifornia
I'm not sure why the people who disagree that the car can be expensive to own are being so indignant/angry? If you disagree, that's fine.
I've owned a great many cars over the years, and the 996 is one of the costliest when it comes to parts. Feel free to call me a dirty liar - but I'm the one buying the stuff, not you. If you'd like to find really affordable parts and buy 'em for me, that would be super.
I do all of my own PM, and as much repair work as I can, and I'm very adept at finding parts for much less than one would spend buying from the parts counter. None of this negates the fact that stuff is expensive.
I encourage anyone who wants a 996 to purchase a 996 - I would not discourage anyone from buying their dream car...so long as they can afford it.
"average joe," by definition, makes the median income and doesn't save much money - Google the current US personal saving rates, median income, etc. In my OPINION (which was what the OP was soliciting by opening this thread), someone making the median income and saving very little money (~4%) is not making the best financial decision by purchasing a 10-15 year old sports car instead of a late-model car with a warranty. When one factors in things like fuel economy, insurance costs, registration fees, depreciation, and all of the other costs that need to be included beyond purchase price and maintenance costs, I believe you'll find that a 911 costs more than average, which would be problematic for "average joe."
Feel free to disagree, but at least make an effort to be civil.
I've owned a great many cars over the years, and the 996 is one of the costliest when it comes to parts. Feel free to call me a dirty liar - but I'm the one buying the stuff, not you. If you'd like to find really affordable parts and buy 'em for me, that would be super.
I do all of my own PM, and as much repair work as I can, and I'm very adept at finding parts for much less than one would spend buying from the parts counter. None of this negates the fact that stuff is expensive.
I encourage anyone who wants a 996 to purchase a 996 - I would not discourage anyone from buying their dream car...so long as they can afford it.
"average joe," by definition, makes the median income and doesn't save much money - Google the current US personal saving rates, median income, etc. In my OPINION (which was what the OP was soliciting by opening this thread), someone making the median income and saving very little money (~4%) is not making the best financial decision by purchasing a 10-15 year old sports car instead of a late-model car with a warranty. When one factors in things like fuel economy, insurance costs, registration fees, depreciation, and all of the other costs that need to be included beyond purchase price and maintenance costs, I believe you'll find that a 911 costs more than average, which would be problematic for "average joe."
Feel free to disagree, but at least make an effort to be civil.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,913
Likes: 25
In dealing with used cars there is no truer statement as "Your mileage may vary" and the old the car is, the truer that becomes.
someone making the median income and saving very little money (~4%) is not making the best financial decision by purchasing a 10-15 year old sports car
The key thing I learned from buying this car and my Jag (about the same time and it was an electrical lemon, shocking I know) is that you should never make major purchases based on luck.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10,424
Likes: 229
From: SOcialist republic of CALifornia
Heh. I can imagine the "Should an average joe buy a 15-year-old Jag" thread. The Jag we had when I was a kid was possessed - like, push in the cigarette lighter with the door open and the window would roll down kind of possessed. I think Jag's electrical engineers for the past 40 years have been lunatics.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,913
Likes: 25
Heh. I can imagine the "Should an average joe buy a 15-year-old Jag" thread. The Jag we had when I was a kid was possessed - like, push in the cigarette lighter with the door open and the window would roll down kind of possessed. I think Jag's electrical engineers for the past 40 years have been lunatics.
Talk about depreciation, I paid $70k for it, sold it 4 years later for 20k, and now you can pick them up for $1000
Of course Jags still don't hold a candle to LRs or MGs in the "should I buy it" category
Rocky Mountain High
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From: Kolorado
You think Jags are bad? I drove a 1979 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce as my daily driver in the early 80s. That didn't last long... There's nothing like having your passenger say "do you smell smoke?"
Racer
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 483
Likes: 1
From: CVG-SFO-EWR
Ahh the tires. Around 6 months after I took delivery of my 996 (new), I noticed the rear tires were almost bald. I thought something was seriously wrong. The car only had 7,500 miles on it, all by me of course. That's how I found Rennlist, looking around to find out what was wrong with my car. They quickly informed me, and I gladly went out and bought a new set of tires to start my tire education.