996 too much for a first car?
10-15-2013, 06:34 PM
#62
Three Wheelin'
Actually if we're switching to listing good alternatives - I think a good first car for a 16 yr old is a 2002 Volvo S60. It's NOT fugly, it's not a land yacht, and extremely safe.
or even better - 1999 Mercedes C230 - quite 'sportlich'
or even better - 1999 Mercedes C230 - quite 'sportlich'
10-15-2013, 06:44 PM
#63
Drifting
I feel that you are missing the point a little, the vast majority of kids will survive their first cars and many do not have accidents however the best race drivers on the planet have accidents on a regular basis. Accidents happen and fast cars raise the speed at which they happen and the potential for their occurrence.
Just because you and your wife have not yet had an accident doesn't mean that you won't have one today.
As a father of 5 I can tell you that you know will nothing about what your child gets up to in a car, alone or with friends, until they come home in a broken car, you have to visit them in hospital or worse. You may believe you know your kids but they are not you.
Just because you and your wife have not yet had an accident doesn't mean that you won't have one today.
As a father of 5 I can tell you that you know will nothing about what your child gets up to in a car, alone or with friends, until they come home in a broken car, you have to visit them in hospital or worse. You may believe you know your kids but they are not you.
No I think you are missing my point and you actually made my point very clear with all the accidents from your kids.
In 1 sentence.
Porsche or no Porsche, if the kid does not get proper training & time behind the wheel, he is bound to crash.
10-15-2013, 06:48 PM
#64
Three Wheelin'
-Eric
10-15-2013, 07:49 PM
#65
Track Day
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Maybe instead you could get your kid a tshirt that says "My daddy is richer than your daddy"? Makes the same point, but safer than sending him out on the roads in a car he isn't ready to handle.
10-15-2013, 08:19 PM
#66
Drifting
Ooooor...if you're okay with a little more performance (and, IMHO, a better looking version of that S60) you can always step up to a 2004 S60R. It offers the stability of AWD, performance of 300hp/295tq, an active chassis, amazingly comfortable seats and a 6 speed manual.
-Eric
-Eric
What I think is the following. YES it MAYBE to much for most of the current posters on rennlist a 996 when they were young. Today's modern cars have equal to or within + - 10% power of the 996.
Is it more dangerous if you give him a 996 vs a corrola. Well it depends but in 95% interval case, yes.
10-15-2013, 08:33 PM
#67
Track Day
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Finally, someone other than myself sees this.
I really don't understand why would anyone give their child a Porsche when all other kids the same age are driving Corollas or sharing a Grand Ams with parents, that's if they are lucky enough to even have access to one.
This is nuts. This can't be good for the kid.
10-15-2013, 09:10 PM
#68
Race Director
Like Chsu74 said above:
I think the point of the thread is to discuss which cars are good candidates for a 1st car and not what other potentially unsafe cars are available in that price range.
10-15-2013, 11:31 PM
#69
Three Wheelin'
You guys are funny... this thing is just as fast as a 996 c4 and we are arguing that a Porsche is to powerful.
What I think is the following. YES it MAYBE to much for most of the current posters on rennlist a 996 when they were young. Today's modern cars have equal to or within + - 10% power of the 996.
Is it more dangerous if you give him a 996 vs a corrola. Well it depends but in 95% interval case, yes.
What I think is the following. YES it MAYBE to much for most of the current posters on rennlist a 996 when they were young. Today's modern cars have equal to or within + - 10% power of the 996.
Is it more dangerous if you give him a 996 vs a corrola. Well it depends but in 95% interval case, yes.
BUT, while I agree with you, it's still worth noting that the Volvo is still a much safer car because it has the advantage of size.If it were my kid I'd be looking at an older Subaru Outback with 4 cylinders...not because it's tunable but because it's large, slow and AWD.
-Eric
10-15-2013, 11:59 PM
#71
Racer
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I spend 4 nights a week washing dishing in grade ten so I could get my first car when I turned 16, a 69 BMW 2002, 1200$ in 1985, what a fun car, my folks owned waterfront in a well off neighborhood but they made me work for everything.
My dad giving me a Porsche ? Not even in my wildest dreams
My dad giving me a Porsche ? Not even in my wildest dreams
10-16-2013, 02:33 AM
#72
Drifting
Those of us with perfect kids need not be concerned by this:
http://www.autos.com/driving-and-saf...e-and-location
+1 on the T Shirt
http://www.autos.com/driving-and-saf...e-and-location
Car Crash Statistics Based on Age
Teens = Highest Risk Group: For every mile driven, teens between the ages of 16 and 19 are four times as likely to be involved in a car crash
Teenage Car Fatalities: 5,000 teens in the 16 to 20 age group die each year as a result of a car crash
Teenage Car Injuries: 400,000 teens in the same age group are injured each year in car accidents
Disproportionate Population / Fatality Ratio: Teens make up 10% of the population but represent 12% of car crash fatalities
Cost: 30% or $26 billion per year in costs are accounted for by drivers under the age of 24
Driving Habits: Teenagers are more likely to speed, tailgate and only 10% report wearing seatbelts
Teen Male Drivers: Of male drivers ages 15 to 20 killed in car crashes, 38% were speeding and 24% were under the influence of alcohol
High Risk Age Groups: People between the ages of 15 and 24 and over 75 are the groups most likely affected by car accidents
Senior Drivers: Drivers over the age of 65 are second most likely to die in a car crash
Safety Disparity: Despite the fact that older drivers are on average slower, safer drivers, they are more likely to die in a car accident than younger drivers
Teens = Highest Risk Group: For every mile driven, teens between the ages of 16 and 19 are four times as likely to be involved in a car crash
Teenage Car Fatalities: 5,000 teens in the 16 to 20 age group die each year as a result of a car crash
Teenage Car Injuries: 400,000 teens in the same age group are injured each year in car accidents
Disproportionate Population / Fatality Ratio: Teens make up 10% of the population but represent 12% of car crash fatalities
Cost: 30% or $26 billion per year in costs are accounted for by drivers under the age of 24
Driving Habits: Teenagers are more likely to speed, tailgate and only 10% report wearing seatbelts
Teen Male Drivers: Of male drivers ages 15 to 20 killed in car crashes, 38% were speeding and 24% were under the influence of alcohol
High Risk Age Groups: People between the ages of 15 and 24 and over 75 are the groups most likely affected by car accidents
Senior Drivers: Drivers over the age of 65 are second most likely to die in a car crash
Safety Disparity: Despite the fact that older drivers are on average slower, safer drivers, they are more likely to die in a car accident than younger drivers
10-16-2013, 04:55 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Safety Disparity: Despite the fact that older drivers are on average slower, safer drivers, they are more likely to die in a car accident than younger drivers
Senior Drivers: Drivers over the age of 65 are second most likely to die in a car crash
Lots of good points made against putting a fast car in the hands of a teenage boy. Period. I agree with nearly all of them. But, I don't subscribe to the "Porsche = only bad things will happen" theory. First off, the older son has had a very good experience with his 951. Yes, although he's had no tickets or accidents, I realize that he (being a teenager) is fully capable of doing something stupid in it and dying. But, I think he could do that in any number of cars. Personally, I think a Jeep CJ is a death trap for a teenager - top heavy, prone to rollover, poor handling and tend to be the teenage carpool vehicle of choice (could say the same about several SUVs come to think of it).
Assume that after evaluating the younger brother's driving skills, habits and maturity over the next year, I feel he is responsible enough to drive something other than a slow, boring car. The thread topic is whether the 996 is a good first car, which includes several issues in addition to "Is it safe" (which of course is issue #1). We got the older boy a 1987 model 951 as it has airbags and ABS. But, I also chose it to teach him about how to troubleshoot and maintain a car himself with the help of forums like this, that enthusiast cars don't have to cost an arm and a leg, and also about how to drive properly.
Driving Habits: Teenagers are more likely to speed, tailgate and only 10% report wearing seatbelts
But, first time I see him driving or riding in ANY car without seatbelts, he'll be grounded for a month. Actually, all 3 of my kids (even my 5 yr old) are seatbelt ***** - they'll bark at me if I so much as put the car in reverse to back out of the garage without everybody completely buckled up.
I'll bet if you took a poll over on the 944 board, you'd find lots of teenagers and early 20 somethings driving those cars mainly because, well, they can afford to buy them (although possibly not afford to properly maintain them). I think most of us here would agree that the 944 makes a great enthusiast car for a young person and a good first Porsche. Like it or not, with many early 996's dipping below $15k in price, you will start seeing 996's in high school parking lots. If I had to choose between a nice, sorted out, later model 951 for $12,000 or a high mileage early model 996 for that price or slightly more, I think I'd feel better about the safety aspects of the 996, especially an AWD model with PSM. I would probably say the same thing in comparing the 996 to many other enthusiast cars of all brands in that price range. Would you agree or disagree? That's probably the gist of my question to the board. But, if you must, feel free to ignore that and focus on the "rich daddy" thing (and keep in mind I'm so rich I bought myself a 996 with 135,000 miles on it).
10-16-2013, 08:35 AM
#74
Drifting
But why a Porsche as a first car??? There has to be some pose value involved in that!
I also find $15,000 a lot of money to spend on a kid's first car; but for that money you can get a brand new Ford Fiesta which has multiple air-bags and stability control and 120 bhp which is more than adequate for a novice driver. Insurance will be low, servicing probably free and full warranty. Is it boring.....who cares!
I believe that this relates to the fact that, physiologically, older drivers are less able to recover from the injuries sustained in a car crash.
And here's one to think about:
He likes to say that he's got the only red Porsche turbo in the high school parking lot
Safety Disparity: Despite the fact that older drivers are on average slower, safer drivers, they are more likely to die in a car accident than younger drivers
And here's one to think about:
A recent Australian study found that licensees younger than 25 who drive high-performance cars have significantly higher crash involvement and injury rates. However, the potential for reducing crashes was estimated to be small because of the few young drivers who operate them
Last edited by mcbit; 10-16-2013 at 08:52 AM.
