Eternal IMS Fix?
#16
Rennlist Member
#17
#18
Interesting, it seems the available options are growing. I know I will need a clutch soon (81,000 mi on original and still doesn't slip!) and want to do something then, but it seems there is something I don't like about every kit.
Problems as I see them:
EPS Roller - Does not address poor lubrication issue, no detail about "thrust control" I'm guessing there is some thrust load there, why else would Porsche have used a ball bearing and not a roller bearing to begin with? Need lots more details to fully judge/evaluate which are not on website.
Tune RS DOF - While not as expensive as the Solution, still not cheap, and does not replace my old worn bearing. Also, I'm not a fan of Zinc plated steel. It never seems to be as robust against corrosion as advertised. I'd rather see Stainless or Aluminum.
Ceramic Hybrid - Still known to fail (arguably due to instillation, I know), still recommended to be changed with every clutch. I want a one and done fix. I plan on having this car for a very long time.
Solution - Expensive, and while Jake seems to be extremely concerned about reputation which is admirable, there is little warranty on the unit. It's great to come on this board and discuss and defend your product, but a a strong warranty would speak even louder. (Also, I'm a bit leery since I'm 1/2 convinced my Guardian is leaking. However, I really can't be certain it's not oil from the RMS dribbling down the wire, so I haven't contacted LN or Flat 6)
Problems as I see them:
EPS Roller - Does not address poor lubrication issue, no detail about "thrust control" I'm guessing there is some thrust load there, why else would Porsche have used a ball bearing and not a roller bearing to begin with? Need lots more details to fully judge/evaluate which are not on website.
Tune RS DOF - While not as expensive as the Solution, still not cheap, and does not replace my old worn bearing. Also, I'm not a fan of Zinc plated steel. It never seems to be as robust against corrosion as advertised. I'd rather see Stainless or Aluminum.
Ceramic Hybrid - Still known to fail (arguably due to instillation, I know), still recommended to be changed with every clutch. I want a one and done fix. I plan on having this car for a very long time.
Solution - Expensive, and while Jake seems to be extremely concerned about reputation which is admirable, there is little warranty on the unit. It's great to come on this board and discuss and defend your product, but a a strong warranty would speak even louder. (Also, I'm a bit leery since I'm 1/2 convinced my Guardian is leaking. However, I really can't be certain it's not oil from the RMS dribbling down the wire, so I haven't contacted LN or Flat 6)
#20
Rennlist Member
Interesting, it seems the available options are growing. I know I will need a clutch soon (81,000 mi on original and still doesn't slip!) and want to do something then, but it seems there is something I don't like about every kit.
Problems as I see them:
EPS Roller - Does not address poor lubrication issue, no detail about "thrust control" I'm guessing there is some thrust load there, why else would Porsche have used a ball bearing and not a roller bearing to begin with? Need lots more details to fully judge/evaluate which are not on website.
Tune RS DOF - While not as expensive as the Solution, still not cheap, and does not replace my old worn bearing. Also, I'm not a fan of Zinc plated steel. It never seems to be as robust against corrosion as advertised. I'd rather see Stainless or Aluminum.
Ceramic Hybrid - Still known to fail (arguably due to instillation, I know), still recommended to be changed with every clutch. I want a one and done fix. I plan on having this car for a very long time.
Solution - Expensive, and while Jake seems to be extremely concerned about reputation which is admirable, there is little warranty on the unit. It's great to come on this board and discuss and defend your product, but a a strong warranty would speak even louder. (Also, I'm a bit leery since I'm 1/2 convinced my Guardian is leaking. However, I really can't be certain it's not oil from the RMS dribbling down the wire, so I haven't contacted LN or Flat 6)
Problems as I see them:
EPS Roller - Does not address poor lubrication issue, no detail about "thrust control" I'm guessing there is some thrust load there, why else would Porsche have used a ball bearing and not a roller bearing to begin with? Need lots more details to fully judge/evaluate which are not on website.
Tune RS DOF - While not as expensive as the Solution, still not cheap, and does not replace my old worn bearing. Also, I'm not a fan of Zinc plated steel. It never seems to be as robust against corrosion as advertised. I'd rather see Stainless or Aluminum.
Ceramic Hybrid - Still known to fail (arguably due to instillation, I know), still recommended to be changed with every clutch. I want a one and done fix. I plan on having this car for a very long time.
Solution - Expensive, and while Jake seems to be extremely concerned about reputation which is admirable, there is little warranty on the unit. It's great to come on this board and discuss and defend your product, but a a strong warranty would speak even louder. (Also, I'm a bit leery since I'm 1/2 convinced my Guardian is leaking. However, I really can't be certain it's not oil from the RMS dribbling down the wire, so I haven't contacted LN or Flat 6)
http://tunersmotorsports.com/?page_id=103
Also discussion on Pelican with manufacturer
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/boxst...injection.html
#21
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Interesting, it seems the available options are growing. I know I will need a clutch soon (81,000 mi on original and still doesn't slip!) and want to do something then, but it seems there is something I don't like about every kit.
Problems as I see them:
EPS Roller - Does not address poor lubrication issue, no detail about "thrust control" I'm guessing there is some thrust load there, why else would Porsche have used a ball bearing and not a roller bearing to begin with? Need lots more details to fully judge/evaluate which are not on website.
Tune RS DOF - While not as expensive as the Solution, still not cheap, and does not replace my old worn bearing. Also, I'm not a fan of Zinc plated steel. It never seems to be as robust against corrosion as advertised. I'd rather see Stainless or Aluminum.
Ceramic Hybrid - Still known to fail (arguably due to instillation, I know), still recommended to be changed with every clutch. I want a one and done fix. I plan on having this car for a very long time.
Solution - Expensive, and while Jake seems to be extremely concerned about reputation which is admirable, there is little warranty on the unit. It's great to come on this board and discuss and defend your product, but a a strong warranty would speak even louder. (Also, I'm a bit leery since I'm 1/2 convinced my Guardian is leaking. However, I really can't be certain it's not oil from the RMS dribbling down the wire, so I haven't contacted LN or Flat 6)
Problems as I see them:
EPS Roller - Does not address poor lubrication issue, no detail about "thrust control" I'm guessing there is some thrust load there, why else would Porsche have used a ball bearing and not a roller bearing to begin with? Need lots more details to fully judge/evaluate which are not on website.
Tune RS DOF - While not as expensive as the Solution, still not cheap, and does not replace my old worn bearing. Also, I'm not a fan of Zinc plated steel. It never seems to be as robust against corrosion as advertised. I'd rather see Stainless or Aluminum.
Ceramic Hybrid - Still known to fail (arguably due to instillation, I know), still recommended to be changed with every clutch. I want a one and done fix. I plan on having this car for a very long time.
Solution - Expensive, and while Jake seems to be extremely concerned about reputation which is admirable, there is little warranty on the unit. It's great to come on this board and discuss and defend your product, but a a strong warranty would speak even louder. (Also, I'm a bit leery since I'm 1/2 convinced my Guardian is leaking. However, I really can't be certain it's not oil from the RMS dribbling down the wire, so I haven't contacted LN or Flat 6)
#22
I found another, seems pretty robust, but cannot read the language. Insario. http://www.insaroims.com/ims-upgrade.php
google translate:
Insaro redesigning also contributes an axis of 20mm, with lugs notice subframe and bearing reinforced ceramic, a second bearing that would subject the shaft in case of breakage of the first bearing, thus preventing sagging of the chain assembly and breakage engine. If such a failure occurs, the shaft would rub against 5 Bosses at the outdoor portaejes producing sound volume and high frequencies would alert the owner of the vehicle quickly.
The major contribution of this new design is the inclusion of a second bearing, which, in case of breakage of the first bearing shaft would prevent off-hook with subsequent engine failure. This second bearing is combined, ball and roller, tougher even than the ball bearing silicon nitride.
In case of breakage of the main bearing, the shaft bearing support in combination, preventing sagging and breaking of the same engine. Also, the lugs 5 provided on the outer circumference of the subframe part, avoid axial movement of the intermediate shaft and in turn generate a vibration that would be a warning of the failure of the part. This alert should be enough to turn off engine and go to a specialized center.
The new design piece Insaro has a 2 year warranty, plus 1 additional year free extended warranty, why, any breakage, defect, or damage of any component will be replaced free of charge.
#23
I think a sealed ceramic hybrid bearing is the ticket. When oil enter the bearing, the seals will act as a barrier and keep the oil inside. Without the seals, any oil that accumulates inside the bearing when the engine is shut off will be displaced through centrifugal force as soon as the engine is running. I do not think splash lubrication is adequate.
#24
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
#25
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I really like the direct oil feed system from Tune RS. This looks to certainly be the evolution of what "feelyx" developed and shared over on Pelican (note: I am just assuming that this was the evolution of feelyx's work. It is also possible that Tune RS developed it seperately):
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/boxst...sign-idea.html
The issue with the bearing is not load capacity, it is lubrication issues that may crop up. The possible scenarios for lubrication issues have been discussed ad nauseum. The ceramic hybrid bearings do better because they have much better tolerance of low lubrication.
I like the Tune RS system because:
1) It can be used with the stock bearing or a hybrid ceramic bearing (choice is good)
2) It can be used on the M97 engines, which is the first IMS upgrade that can be added on without major engine disassembly to the M97 (that I know about)
3) If the oil feed line becomes compromised (e.g. crimped, or develops a leak) then the bearing will continue much like the stock unit. The plain bearing of the IMS solution will fail very quickly if anything significant happens to the oil feed. Not terribly likely, but anytime there is external plumbing in the oil system it is a risk.
4) This system is available to DIY'ers. Nothing wrong with getting a pro to do a job like this, but it is well within the capability of knowledgable and careful home mechanics too and I am happy that I can buy it.
That said, periodic bearing replacement or the LN solution are good options as well.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/boxst...sign-idea.html
The issue with the bearing is not load capacity, it is lubrication issues that may crop up. The possible scenarios for lubrication issues have been discussed ad nauseum. The ceramic hybrid bearings do better because they have much better tolerance of low lubrication.
I like the Tune RS system because:
1) It can be used with the stock bearing or a hybrid ceramic bearing (choice is good)
2) It can be used on the M97 engines, which is the first IMS upgrade that can be added on without major engine disassembly to the M97 (that I know about)
3) If the oil feed line becomes compromised (e.g. crimped, or develops a leak) then the bearing will continue much like the stock unit. The plain bearing of the IMS solution will fail very quickly if anything significant happens to the oil feed. Not terribly likely, but anytime there is external plumbing in the oil system it is a risk.
4) This system is available to DIY'ers. Nothing wrong with getting a pro to do a job like this, but it is well within the capability of knowledgable and careful home mechanics too and I am happy that I can buy it.
That said, periodic bearing replacement or the LN solution are good options as well.
#27
Rennlist Member
Excellence Magazine Technical Article
#29
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Why not an article on all the various versions and testing of new and innovative designs ( the Feelyx thread on the Pelican site is phenomenal, was like reading a good novel) of the IMSB retrofit possibilities? There are a lot of engines out there with this design = great readership interest. This thread has already pointed out numerous possibilities.
Dave
#30
I think a sealed ceramic hybrid bearing is the ticket. When oil enter the bearing, the seals will act as a barrier and keep the oil inside. Without the seals, any oil that accumulates inside the bearing when the engine is shut off will be displaced through centrifugal force as soon as the engine is running. I do not think splash lubrication is adequate.
Tony, that's what the Vertex guy said on the 'phone. I was not vouching for him, merely repeating what he told me.