Cmanis

I did my first oil change today and it went well thanks to all the information on this site. I tore the filter apart and discovered more debris than I was expecting. There were orange rubbery bits and flat silver flakes that resembled paint. There were a few very small pieces of metal. The orange rubbery pieces turned out to be sealant from a repair done on replacing the lifters on cyl #5 done by the dealer I purchased it from. I am not sure what the flakes are, they look and feel like paint. The car is a 2003 that is getting ready to turn 50k. I would appreciate any feedback. I think I will run it a while and then drop and inspect filter again.

Zanzibar Red 996

That is what a filter is for
Filtering out Aluminum

Macster

The flakes are alum, made metal flake thin by being squished by the oil pump gear teeth.

Nearly the entire surface area of the engine swept by oil is alum, with a just a bit of surface area consisting of steel/iron and bronze (valve guides) and composite plastic (cam chain rail guide/tensioners).

The engine will shed alum over the course of its life, the amount declining though if the engine is "opened up" the amount of material shed can spike.

The amount of material in the filter wouldn't bother me at all.

Cmanis

Macster- Thank you! I did not want to flip out, just surprised by amt. thanks for explanation, I thought since they had been in there recently that may be the case. How long would you go before checking it? Would you just drop filter or do complete change? Thanks again.

knfeparty

Alum flakes are common. I would be uncomfortable with the sealant though. I would do a used oil analysis by Blackstone or ALS Tribology- I purchase my kits through LN Engineering. The "UOA" will tell you how much silicon content is in your oil from that sealant and whether or not is is a problem.
If you are really worried do another filter change at 3k or do oil and filter at 5k. Depends on how much you drive I guess.

Cut open my BMWs filter the other day and it had absolutely nothing in it, but that car has 132k miles. The porsche always has a few bits.

Ahsai

I think I would drop the oil pan and check the oil pick up mesh to make sure it's not clogged by any debris. Then carefully reseal the oil pan afterwards.

Cmanis

Knfeparty, thanks for the suggestion I did not think of an analysis. I identified the sealant because it is visible on the side they worked on.

Ahsai, I did consider dropping the pan. Maybe I will do that on the next change and do it sooner as knfeparty suggested. Do you happen to know the type of sealant that is used when I have to reinstall?

Ahsai

You may want to check out the thread here https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...e-oil-pan.html

Post #2 has the p/n

Cmanis

Thanks!

perryinva

+1, and the sooner the better, IMHO. The rubber bits bother me.

Cmanis

I suspect there will be orange material on the mesh. I wonder if they used too much sealant or if this is considered normal. It has been almost a year since the repair was done.

Ahsai

There was an engine just blown up recently reported here by Jake due to excessive pan sealant blocking the mesh hence my reco.

Photos here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4914693&type=3

Cmanis

Ahsai, thanks for sharing the link. I will not be surprised if mine has material on it. I will move up removing the pan and inspecting it instead of waiting for the next change. $100 in oil / filter beats the alternative!

Macster

It depends upon what you need for a suitable comfort level.

Provided a magnet drawn over the filter through the oil -- provided you drained it into a *clean* drain pan finds no ferrous bits I'd not bother until the next oil/filter service.

In fact I never bother to check my cars' oil filter for anything since I have had my cars serviced at a dealer now for several years since I no longer have the time to work on my cars. The techs tell me they never bother to check the filters for anything, though I believe if a filter were damaged or compromised in some way they'd note that.

If you want install a new filter, top up the oil, then run the engine up to temp shut it off drop the filter housing and look again.

If the amount of material is the same or worse...

But I suspect you'll do the above for nothing.

Unlike others, generally I would not advise you to drop the pan. The problem is you'll likely find some scary looking trash that has been there for like ever.

In fact it is possible that a piece of alum. that had been laying on the bottom of the sump got ingested by the oil pump and that is where those pieces/flakes came from.

However, the fact you had someone at the engine and it appears they have used some wrong sealant -- the Porsche sealant is black -- makes me think there is the possibly too much sealant was used.

While I do not believe there is much risk to the oil intake being blocked by this there is the possibility. I mean who knows how much sealant was used?

The factory manual describes a small sized bead of sealant be used. This is to ensure the sealant is squeezed to a uniform thickness of zero inches yet is spread out and there is no place where the camshaft cover and head join that doesn't have the full mating surface with sealant between them.

There can be some flashing of sealant. However the sealant is very pliable and will when it breaks loose be pulverized by the scavenge oil pump then routed to the oil sump. The high pressure oil pump should it ingest any of this can break the stuff up some more

Why is this? The camshaft cover makes up the top half of the camshaft bearings and these are finished machined with the camshaft cover bolted to the head with the proper torque and no sealant.

In essence the sealant adds no thickness, unlike a gasket, it just fills the voids between the camshaft cover and the head surfaces where the camshaft cover and head join. This is so the bearing diameters/clearances remain as they were when the engine left the factory.

If someone uses the sealant to make a "gasket" that separates the camshaft cover from the head slightly... that's trouble.

So if you drop the pan and find oodles of sealant then you have another problem or concern. Was too much sealant used at the camshaft cover/head joining? Is there some distance now between the camshaft cover surface and the head which means one or more camshaft bearings is running with excessive clearance?

Or is there some portion of the sealant that has been expelled by the high oil pressure and now there is an internal oil leak?

I mean it can get really ugly really quickly.

Do not ask a question to which you do not want to know the answer.

Cmanis

Macster, thanks again. I appreciate the explanations you provide. I think I will check for excessive amounts just to get more information. I'm not sure what to make of the potential clearance issue. I guess if the pan is loaded with sealant I can take it to a dealer to have them inspect and potentially reinstall if needed. The car is under a power train warranty until December, so it has until then to have a problem