KrazyK

Haha, if my budget allowed I would be buying a 3.8 JR prepped total solution and a lifetime supply of JG oil.

D6lc

thats alot of oil when you change it every week

alpine003

+996

...or 200 miles whichever comes first.


Fixed.

soverystout

+996 I've been running the low temp stat (along with a new OEM Pump, Coolant etc) for over 2 years now. No change in fuel mileage, no SAI overactivity, no failed cats, no terrible explosions, no cels, no cracked heads, no loss in heat blah blah blah blah blah).

The car runs great and the temp is nice an consistant. This is a daily driver that has seen 10 degrees (in the winter with snows on) and 100 degrees (in the dead of summer).

If anyone thinks the gauge is accurate I have some land to sell you.
Running a stat that opens sooner and that is fully open just a bit earlier than the OE stat is not the same as running without a stat........

perryinva

As long as you are good with that, go for it. But if you are basing your logic on the above, your theory is way, way, off. The temperature is measured well after the rads, and is a slow to react indication, so even a FEW localized overheated spots would long be lost in the remaining 6 gallons of circulating coolant, by the time it reached the sensor. That was the whole point of the Hartech article. And as has been noted, appears to be actually more important on the MKIIs than MKIs, regardless of the increased airflow through the rads of the MKIIs. The damage occurs in seconds, and is cumulative, whereas the t-stat takes minutes to react. Look at the flow diagram, and it is obvious that the coolant temp IN the engine and at the oil cooler are far higher than the indicated on the dash. Just like how the coolant in the "entering" passages of the engine is far cooler than the "exiting" passages. Ideally, for best operation and longest life, the temp profile across the engine would be indentical, but that is, of course, impossible, so the best you can do is try to minimize the extremes. I plan to tape and insulate a thermocouple to the metal outlet cooling pipe and measure that temp, and get a definitive exit temp profile. Every car is a bit different, but on the MKIIs, I feel this is a win win improvement for longevity and oil temp control. The oil is plenty hot enough for the engine, no where near running too cool, in any sense. A 20 degree lower opening T-stat in the 996, because of its location before the engine, instead of after like on most cars, MAYBE gives you an average drop in overall coolant temp of 8 degrees. What it does give, is overall increased flow through the engine at normal operation.

Naturally, I am NOT saying that all engines are doomed, or Porsche engineers didn't know what they were doing, yada, yada, yada. Only that real 996 engine professionals, with far more experience that everyone on these forums combined, have indeed noted and measured the scuffing, and localized hot spots on SOME of these engines, and how close to the edge the other engines are, no one may ever know. I prefer to keep my engine farther from that edge with this simple, effective improvement.

alpine003

These are the same people that have something to sell you.

OTOH, if it came from an independent source with nothing to gain and the statistics backed it up in raw hard numbers, I'd be more inclined to actually do something about it(not saying I don't believe the theory however).

As for temps, one can get a rough idea with a $20 infrared temp gun these days, if anything to measure temp variations on the rubber hoses in different areas.

Once again I'm certainly not preaching for one or the other. Individuals have to do what makes them comfortable and what makes sense to them.

One can also debate on adding 3rd radiator for street applications too for manuals...

There will always be things to nit pick over and that's what makes it great IMO.

Being able to start a dialogue on these topics to address any perceived issues and /or compromises from the manufacturer and letting the individual decide if they want to address them based on their priorities, budget, comfort, and other constraints.

perryinva

+1..right on! Agree with you 100%. Just an informative dialogue. I see it as, them not selling anything, or they wouldn't make the articles available. It's not like the M96 engine is known for its bullet proof cooling, though, right?

fpb111

[QUOTE=alpine003;10353423]It's funny how we pick apart Porsche(maybe a snowball witch hunt from the IMS?) and try to re-engineer everything. I'm sure there are some improvements that can be made and some of them could be detrimental. However I also see several high mileage examples that have done just fine driving it as is the way it came from Stuttgart. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I don't like to have stained lips from drinking Kool-aid.

Seems like the Porsche crowd sometimes wants that last 5-10% regardless just to have a peace of mind or some sense of security sometimes.

I'll side with the Porsche engineers on this one as if it was something they really felt was wrong to begin with, they would've changed it on their later models at least with no additional cost to them(just different spec t-stat).[/QUOTE]

Think so? 997 temp gauge.

D6lc

I may be wrong but I thought the GT3 and later 997's have a lower temp stat as standard

alpine003

The way I see it and I'm not expecting to have everyone agree with me, is that there are always things that can be improved and things that "might" fail in situations or under certain circumstances with any given part.

Often times things can get cloudy in how things are either interpreted or might get communicated in the process. During that, it begs the question on whether something is often really "needed" or "required" in actuality for all practical intents and purposes.

My wife for example gets her teeth cleaned and examined at least twice a year. I on the other hand haven't been to a dentist in 15 years and I have all my teeth still.

I think you will find debates even among mechanics if somehow we can all get all master techs together on this and many topics. But the reality is that many bricks and mortars type mechanics don't really get to voice their opinion to the world since they are not on the internet, hence the cloudy part that I was referring to.

One thing for sure, I think people should do things that make them comfortable regardless of what may by needed or not. That is the point I was trying to make.

perfectlap

I'm having a lot temp t-stat installed now.

So it might be worse for the engine in the long run?
What sort of t-stat are used in the Cup Cars?

Seems like I can deal with the need for more frequently oil changes. That's within my control.
High temp engine wear less so.

p.s.
Low temp t-stat is sold on LNE's website. I'm sure one of their guys will chime in at some point.


Phew....for a second there at 5 years I thought I was the national record-holder for longest without a dentis's visit.
In my defense, I only brush with down strokes, use a tongue brush, antiseptic wash and finish with a flouride rinse. Never drink coffee or smoke. Need to work on the flossing habit...

alpine003

Those were different engines with different cooling needs so not sure you can compare apples to oranges.

Porsche hasn't been shy of sending out TSB's for all sorts of things. If this was really an issue, I'm sure we would've seen a TSB on it.

alpine003

That's the million dollar question, what constitutes a "high" temp within the context of this engine in particular?

Engine hot spot theory seem valid for earlier coolant flow to reduce but how many premature failures have we seen or are going to see from the results of it?

perfectlap

well that's total failure, pretty smalll sliver of the whole for sure. But there must be other issues that can come up with running at highER temp.
particualrly for a car that's often driven in an urban setting and sits idling in traffic on a daily basis.

alpine003

I bet the air-cooled guys are laughing at us right now.