Low temp thermostat, coolant temp variation
04-02-2013, 05:58 PM
#16
C'mon man, there are guys that debate tires or oil all day long here too and on other forums. Those same guys drive like grandmas and usually never encounter cornering above 5/10's on the street yet complain they want more grip and comfort to boot. Don't forget that 80k mileage warranty.
04-02-2013, 06:03 PM
#17
This isn't just a Porsche forum thing, there's similar sentiment in every forum for every vehicle with an enthusiast population
04-02-2013, 06:20 PM
#18
Darrick, I have to disagree. Out of all the forums I am a member of or have been banned from (included for SP, and Alp), the only one that comes close to the amount of "my engine sucks" posts is the Ford 6.0L diesel forum. Man talk about a disaster of epic proportions. It almost makes the M96 NA look like a winner.
Although you do not drive a Ferrari KK, you sure do treat yours like one. (inside Ferrari Joke that those owners would understand). I think you would actually be a perfect fit if you got an older Ferrari.
04-02-2013, 06:26 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Darrick, I have to disagree. Out of all the forums I am a member of or have been banned from (included for SP, and Alp), the only one that comes close to the amount of "my engine sucks" posts is the Ford 6.0L diesel forum. Man talk about a disaster of epic proportions. It almost makes the M96 NA look like a winner.
04-02-2013, 06:29 PM
#20
Although you do not drive a Ferrari KK, you sure do treat yours like one. (inside Ferrari Joke that those owners would understand). I think you would actually be a perfect fit if you got an older Ferrari.
Last edited by KrazyK; 04-27-2016 at 10:26 AM.
04-02-2013, 06:32 PM
#21
I'm aware, I also own a 6.0L Powerstroke F250. I apparently am a huge sucker for "terrible" engines.
And,, the 6.0's were just like the M96, you either got an incredibly reliable one or a ticking time bomb that explodes over and over and over. That brings back some memories, I still recall the "cabless" diesels all over the Ford shops.
04-02-2013, 06:51 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
Hmm, I've noticed none of those particular changes in my '02 C2 since I installed my low temp. It goes up to dead center 180 and stays there, except in stop & go on a warm day, where I am not using AC. Then it goes up to just touching the "0" of 180 until I get moving steady again and it goes back down. Alt volts are the same SAI behaves the same, etc. With the old T-stat in cold weather, I would get heat right away since the heater core is always in the loop, then blam! cold air from the heater when the t-stat opened. This does not happen, or is not at all noticeable with the new t-stat, so temp cycling was far worse with the old stat vs the new stat. The low temp stat should be I creasing efficiency by having more flow at a more constant temp vs the old stat.
When you all say it is cycling, exactly from where to where on the gauge?
When you all say it is cycling, exactly from where to where on the gauge?
04-02-2013, 07:24 PM
#23
I need to check again but for me during some driving pattern, the temp needle will cycle narrowly between middle of "8" and straight up. The cycling is quite slow and subtle so unless you look at it all the time, it's difficult to notice it. Most of the time though it just goes up steadily to straight up position.
It also depends on the weather. It tends to come down from the straight up position if the outside temp is lower (e.g., 60s).
It also depends on the weather. It tends to come down from the straight up position if the outside temp is lower (e.g., 60s).
04-02-2013, 08:02 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Only engine mod is a 4" turbo-back exhaust.
04-02-2013, 09:21 PM
#25
I had Flat6 replace the IMSB a year ago along with the water pump and Jake recommended the low temp thermostat. I did some other research before hand and felt comfortable with his recommendation so ask them to do. I haven't seen any major difference. No temperature fluctuations and SAI doesn't cycle on / off frequently. Needle just goes up to 180 and stays steady unless I'm in a lot of stop and go traffic then it creeps up.
04-02-2013, 11:59 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Noise and emission reg's are perfect examples of when sometimes undoing the factory engineering might have definitive advantage to owners... Perhaps Porsche used that particular thermostat because the higher temp and stability makes it easier to control emissions? Or because changing the engine operating temperature during the model cycle would have required additional compliance testing?
04-03-2013, 12:00 AM
#27
Track Day
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The reason for the standard high temp thermostat is because of emmisions, to control emmissions, you need a hot running engine. So the T stat decision is not made by Porsche for engine longevity, but to comply with emmissions.
Hartech recommends the low temp stat because there is one situation, although it doesn't happen all the time, that can hurt your motor. The t stat is at the end of the cooling system loop, so that water that hits the stat has already gone through the radiators and is at its coldest. Therefore, there is a lag time between the coolant in the motor heating up and the opening of the stat. The hot coolant has to go through the entire sytem, through the radiators, before it hits the stat and opens it.
So in a situation where you are cruising along on the freeway at high speed, low rpms, the cooling system is at its most efficient. The OEM stat is partialy closed or closed completely, which means the coolant is not going through the rads. Now, you downshift a couple of gears and really get on the throttle, the temperature in the head instantaneously goes up, and since the OEM stat is closed, or partially closed, cold coolant does not get to the head, which can lead to local overheating, especially in the cylinders furthest from the WP. If you have a stat that keeps the coolant 20+ degrees cooler in that situation, you have a cushion and also the stat opens earlier, which allows coolant that has gone through the rads to get to the head sooner.
The cooler can't hurt anything, and it can help in some situations.
Hartech recommends the low temp stat because there is one situation, although it doesn't happen all the time, that can hurt your motor. The t stat is at the end of the cooling system loop, so that water that hits the stat has already gone through the radiators and is at its coldest. Therefore, there is a lag time between the coolant in the motor heating up and the opening of the stat. The hot coolant has to go through the entire sytem, through the radiators, before it hits the stat and opens it.
So in a situation where you are cruising along on the freeway at high speed, low rpms, the cooling system is at its most efficient. The OEM stat is partialy closed or closed completely, which means the coolant is not going through the rads. Now, you downshift a couple of gears and really get on the throttle, the temperature in the head instantaneously goes up, and since the OEM stat is closed, or partially closed, cold coolant does not get to the head, which can lead to local overheating, especially in the cylinders furthest from the WP. If you have a stat that keeps the coolant 20+ degrees cooler in that situation, you have a cushion and also the stat opens earlier, which allows coolant that has gone through the rads to get to the head sooner.
The cooler can't hurt anything, and it can help in some situations.
Sorry, I'm going to have to side with Macster on this one. I'm thouroughly satisfied knowing my oil is at proper operating temperature.
04-03-2013, 12:13 AM
#28
Noise and emission reg's are perfect examples of when sometimes undoing the factory engineering might have definitive advantage to owners... Perhaps Porsche used that particular thermostat because the higher temp and stability makes it easier to control emissions? Or because changing the engine operating temperature during the model cycle would have required additional compliance testing?
In the case of emissions logic, I suppose I can remove my cats too so the car will perform better.
Theories aside from a pure statistical perspective, I don't see changing out thermostats really having any detrimental effect whether our engines break down or not(track cars don't apply).
As I've said before if you like seeing your needle closer to the middle, by all means do this mod.
04-03-2013, 01:28 AM
#29
If JR's most recent opinion is to use the 160 T-stat in a street car (not track use), I would strongly consider it if your changing the WP anyway. For me IDK because I do so much short trip, light use it might be a bad idea.