alpine003

This is correct. The inner wheel can lift thus sacrificing some mechanical grip with just a rear sway bar. Also when driving anything above 8/10's around a track, I would actually prefer a bit of understeer so I can approach the limits more confidently and ultimately go faster. Coupled with the fact that you have increased spring rate in the rear from your H&R's, I would dial in more rear tire pressure effectively increasing your spring rate even more if you still need to dial out understeer. Some guys choose to increase their spring rates rather than sway bar size. There are two schools of thought in regard to more spring and less sway and vice versa. I've driven with just an upgraded rear sway bar and it felt a bit weird to a point where it actually slowed me down around the track. I know quite a few dedicated track guys that have been known to even disconnect their rear sway links for this reason.

But as others have said, I would rather save an get a complete set if you can.

ECS Tuning

We carry H&R sway bars and the GT3 kit that includes everything. For more information Click Here.

H&R Front Non-adjustable: 26mm
H&R Rear Adjustable: 23mm

pmkazz

Agree with disconnecting the rear sway bar. As stated, stiffen the front first. Try that. Then you can stiffen the rear, but (depending on the spring rates of those H&Rs) you probable will not need too....

KrazyK

Not to question this swaybar discussion but hasnt actual testing proven that tire upgardes show a much more drastic improvement in handling or increasing resistance to G forces than a swaybar diameter/stiffness upgrade?

Or,, are you assuming someone has already maxed out the tire factor with upgrade?

perryinva

Also, diameter doesn't tell the full story. IIRC, even though the front M030s are only 23.6mm, they are thicker wall (they are hollow), than OE 23mm ones, so stiffer than the diameter changes suggest. Have to look at force ratings. I agree with KK also, tires before ARBs, but a single ARB is of course a lot cheaper.

alpine003

Hollow sway bars need to be significantly bigger in size to offer the same roll resistance of same sized solid bars. IIRC, the M030 are still solid. It was the Cup Car's that were hollow. I have one.

With that said, there isn't one magical formula that will work with everyone's driving style and setup. You really have to get out on the track and experiment and see what works best for you. All of these suggestions should only be taken lightly as a mere starting baseline to begin with.

Tire Pressures are one cheap and effective setting that anyone can do. Start off with the simple stuff first if you don't have the funds to do a full setup.

KrazyK

Im building the perfect track car setup (in my head). I Might do the swaybar/link mods to improve handling. I have the Mich Pilots already. The GT2 front bar sounds interesting.

balefire

Just to clarify things in this thread...
NB vs WB have different sways, so a GT2 will not fit a C2
M030 is hollow (I have it).
Eibach is solid (I have it).
A slightly stiffer FSB can help improve front grip by reducing dynamic camber loss and roll which reduces lap time, but ultimately the car will still understeer.
Also, too stiff a FSB will worsen understeer

I've posted this before, but here's the sway bar info I gathered before getting mine.

C2/GT3 Sways
Normal front 23.1mm x 3.4mm / rear 18.5mm x 2.5mm
ROW M030 front 23.6mm x 3.6mm / rear 19.6mm x 2.6 mm
GT3 front 26.8mm x 4.0mm / rear 20.7mm x 2.8 mm (5 way adj
front, 4 way adj rear, end links needed)
Eibach C2 front 24.0mm x solid / rear 19.0mm x solid (only rear 3 way adj)
H&R C2 front 26mm / rear 23mm - rear only adj

RUF resells Eibach sways (painted green)
Gemballa resells H&R sways

C4S/Turbo
C4S/TT front 23.6x 3.5mm/ rear 21.7x 3.0mm
GT2 front 26.8x 4.0mm/ rear 20.7x 2.8mm
Eibach TT front 24.0mm x solid / rear 23.0mm x solid (only rear 3 way adj)
H&R C4S front 25mm / rear 24mm - both adjustable
TechArt TT front 23.8mm x ? / rear 23 mm x ?? (front and rear 3 way
adj, end links may be needed)

alpine003

You sure about that?

First off you're probably getting mixed up as the GT2 is RWD and not awd like the C4S and Turbo models. NB and WB doesn't really have anything to do with it. It's the drivetrain layout that determines sway bar compatibility.

For example, the GT2 swaybars both f/r are exactly the same as the GT3 bars. We know GT3 bars fit C2 models(have them on my car) so GT2 bars should fit. After all, they are the same part #'s.

Secondly, if the M030 are indeed hollow then the 23.6mm sizing compared to the solid 23.1mm sizing of the normal sways, that to me would indicate a less effective roll resistance with the 23.6mm as you would need significant larger bar size given the hollow nature to be as effective as a solid 23.1mm.

Do you know how much your hollow M030 bar weighs?

balefire

the stock and M030 sway bars are both hollow, but the M030 bar is slightly thicker with a larger diameter...

i have never heard of a NB with a GT2 sway, but I suppose it is possible. The GT2 shares suspension bits in addition to the chassis with the 996 WB / TT cars, but as you point out, the GT2 is RWD. I would be happy to be wrong as that would provide another sway bar option for me.

jetskied

If your goal is getting better time on the track then get better tires before sway bars. Also it sounds like you have installed sport springs without upgraded shocks which is not the best idea for a DE car. I would rectify that before sway bars. Some cheap things as other said to dial out understeer is play with tire pressure and try to get as much camber in the front. Some toe adjustments help too. Bars does help stabilize the car making the driver feel more confident in the turns and it can be used to tune out over/understeer, but you have other things to take care of such as shocks and better tires hat would benifit you more.

speed rII

My row 030 has hollow swaybars. I didn't check the weight of the rearbar, but it is very light...

There is more factors on the swaybars than just diameter, steel's do have diffrent tensilestrenght's

And for the hollow vs solid, outersurface of tube/rod takes the most of the torgue. Closer you get to the center, less it resist's.
So becouse of that, the hollow doesn't need to be much larger in diameter.

To OP, stiffer front sway will make your inner tyre to lift easyer. So I would go with the rear sway first.

swepersson

Correct rII. Stiffer front will lift inside wheel as disconnecting rear SB will do the same...

alpine003

When you guys say lift inside wheel, are you talking about front or rear?

KrazyK

The inside front tire. I dont see how you could cause the inside rear to lift.