3.8 engine conversion ? how much ?
#61
Rennlist Member
My car is in the shop for service this week. I asked my mechanic to check fuel ratio and give his recommendations. I may decide to install a custom tune and perform a dyno test in the next few weeks.
#62
Rennlist Member
Update on air/fuel ratio. We checked the car over this week and my indy also felt that I had flashed the ECU, which I havn't. The motor runs a bit lean in lower rpms but then begins to run rich at higher rpms. All in all he was confident the motor was running fine. No custom tune planned just yet. Id rather spend the $ on seat time.
#64
Former Vendor
OEM a/f's are around 10.5-12. Run it too lean such as 14.0 and the engine runs hotter and can’t take as much ignition advance thereby loosing torque and overall HP. You also risk burning holes in the top of the pistons.....
I'm pretty sure you know all this. Why do you think 14:1 is OK? Have you ever run a M96 motor that lean for any length of time? Do you know of any shop that recommends or programs their M96's to run that lean?....
I'm pretty sure you know all this. Why do you think 14:1 is OK? Have you ever run a M96 motor that lean for any length of time? Do you know of any shop that recommends or programs their M96's to run that lean?....
A Motec PLM was used to capture the data, and the sensor was calibrated prior to the session. As you can see, the AFRs hovered in the 14.2 range, from factory.
The power output to the wheels:
The engine had 36,000 miles.
I hope that sheds some light.
#65
Thanks Bisi for your insights and actual measurement data.
Do you plan on exploring NA m96 tuning or do you think there isn't much more left on the table? This is in regards to tuning with NA bolt ons.
Also, any plans to come out with your own m96 turbo kits in the future?
Do you plan on exploring NA m96 tuning or do you think there isn't much more left on the table? This is in regards to tuning with NA bolt ons.
Also, any plans to come out with your own m96 turbo kits in the future?
#66
Pro
So I just finished a bottom end build.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/apex944...7633702078228/
Here is a list of parts for you to plan with. This is pretty much the minimum # of parts you can get away with for doing a split case rebuild. Heads are being left alone for "phase 1" ... over the winter they will get built.
Found a parts place in Ohio (ECS Tuning) that will match best prices. Their prices are usually lowest anyway. If they don't list it they will order from PCNA or OEM at deep discounts. Just put a PCNA part# into their search bar with no "." to see prices.
Case parts:
• OE Single row IMS bearing $165 **. Not sure I need it.
• Secondary air injection blanking plates
• Case half water jacket gaskets. $8.00
• Case to water hose flange gasket. $3.00
• New front main seal, Victor Reinz 999-113-475-40-M17 (PP)
• New 997 rear main seal, Victor Reinz 997.101.212.01-M17 (PP)
• New Oil Separator Gaskets, OEM
• New air oil separator (AOS)
Crankshaft Cradle / Bearing Carrier
• Professionally cleaned
• New carrier bolts.
Crankshaft
• New Thrust Washers, German OEM
• New Main Bearings 1-7, 14x, Glyco $37 ea.
• Crankshaft Pilot Bearing 2400 (new w/ LWFW)
• Complete assembly dynamically balanced ($225)
• M97 3.8 harmonic dampening crankshaft pulley
Connecting Rods
• Rod bearings $7 each. Glyco
• Carrillo 99603>-65590H (Tool steel bolts)
Pistons
• JE 99mm overbore pistons 11.8:1 CR
• New piston pin clips
• New Piston Rings, JE
Cylinder Head:
• 3.8 factory head gaskets, Porsche # 997 104 201 02
$39.99 ea. Elring. Note new pn# ends in -03
• Head Bolts (OEM or ARP $230)
• New spark plug tube seals, 12x
• Exh Gaskets 99611110755
Timing Chain
• New Timing VC & Chain guides, OEM
• New Chain Rail O’rings, OEM, 6x
• New Camshaft Plastic Cover Plugs, OEM, 6x
• New aluminum crush washers 6mm & 8mm, Reinz
• New zinc plated 6mm & 8mm lock nuts, Wurth
• New timing chains
• TENSIONER PAD 99610519500
• TIMING CHAIN GUIDE 99610516651
• TIMING CHAIN GUIDE 99610516555
• DOWEL PIN 99610111753
• WASHER 90023404001
• SCREW 6 X 40 90007548601
• IWIS TIMING CHAIN R99610517053 $22.99
Intermediate shaft
• New Intermediate Shaft Housing mating seal, OEM
• New Intermediate Shaft Housing mating O'ring, OEM
• New IMS Chain
• Tig weld sprockets to IMS tube
Belt Tensioner
• New Tensioner Dust Boots, Reinz
• New serp belt (shorter for smaller pulley)
Cooling System
• Water Cover Plate, Reinz
• Water Cover Plate Gasket, Reinz
• New Thermostat Housing Gasket, Reinz
• New Water Pump Gasket, Reinz 996-106-340-54-OEM (PP)
• New 160* T-Stat 462-160 MotoRad (PP)
• Waterpump pn# 997.106.011.02 (997 3.6L)
• Replace many coolant and AOS hoses
Oil System
• New Oil Filter, Napa
• New Filler Tube Seal, Reinz
• Replace scavenge pump if needed
• LNE billet oil pump hex driver $20
• OEM oil pump pressure spring & piston
• New Oil Level Dip Stick Seal, Reinz
• New Oil Guide Tube Seal, Reinz
• New Oil pressure sender
• New Oil Level Sender Seal, Reinz
• New oil cooler seals, 4x Reinz
• New Oil Pump Housing Gasket, Reinz
• New Oil Pump Housing O’rings, Reinz
• New Oil Pump Gaskets Reinz
• Magnetic Drain Plug LNE
• New Drain Plug Gasket Reinz
• 10 quarts BR break-in oil
Electrical
• New OXS (Amazon) $54
• New plugs
http://www.flickr.com/photos/apex944...7633702078228/
Here is a list of parts for you to plan with. This is pretty much the minimum # of parts you can get away with for doing a split case rebuild. Heads are being left alone for "phase 1" ... over the winter they will get built.
Found a parts place in Ohio (ECS Tuning) that will match best prices. Their prices are usually lowest anyway. If they don't list it they will order from PCNA or OEM at deep discounts. Just put a PCNA part# into their search bar with no "." to see prices.
Case parts:
• OE Single row IMS bearing $165 **. Not sure I need it.
• Secondary air injection blanking plates
• Case half water jacket gaskets. $8.00
• Case to water hose flange gasket. $3.00
• New front main seal, Victor Reinz 999-113-475-40-M17 (PP)
• New 997 rear main seal, Victor Reinz 997.101.212.01-M17 (PP)
• New Oil Separator Gaskets, OEM
• New air oil separator (AOS)
Crankshaft Cradle / Bearing Carrier
• Professionally cleaned
• New carrier bolts.
Crankshaft
• New Thrust Washers, German OEM
• New Main Bearings 1-7, 14x, Glyco $37 ea.
• Crankshaft Pilot Bearing 2400 (new w/ LWFW)
• Complete assembly dynamically balanced ($225)
• M97 3.8 harmonic dampening crankshaft pulley
Connecting Rods
• Rod bearings $7 each. Glyco
• Carrillo 99603>-65590H (Tool steel bolts)
Pistons
• JE 99mm overbore pistons 11.8:1 CR
• New piston pin clips
• New Piston Rings, JE
Cylinder Head:
• 3.8 factory head gaskets, Porsche # 997 104 201 02
$39.99 ea. Elring. Note new pn# ends in -03
• Head Bolts (OEM or ARP $230)
• New spark plug tube seals, 12x
• Exh Gaskets 99611110755
Timing Chain
• New Timing VC & Chain guides, OEM
• New Chain Rail O’rings, OEM, 6x
• New Camshaft Plastic Cover Plugs, OEM, 6x
• New aluminum crush washers 6mm & 8mm, Reinz
• New zinc plated 6mm & 8mm lock nuts, Wurth
• New timing chains
• TENSIONER PAD 99610519500
• TIMING CHAIN GUIDE 99610516651
• TIMING CHAIN GUIDE 99610516555
• DOWEL PIN 99610111753
• WASHER 90023404001
• SCREW 6 X 40 90007548601
• IWIS TIMING CHAIN R99610517053 $22.99
Intermediate shaft
• New Intermediate Shaft Housing mating seal, OEM
• New Intermediate Shaft Housing mating O'ring, OEM
• New IMS Chain
• Tig weld sprockets to IMS tube
Belt Tensioner
• New Tensioner Dust Boots, Reinz
• New serp belt (shorter for smaller pulley)
Cooling System
• Water Cover Plate, Reinz
• Water Cover Plate Gasket, Reinz
• New Thermostat Housing Gasket, Reinz
• New Water Pump Gasket, Reinz 996-106-340-54-OEM (PP)
• New 160* T-Stat 462-160 MotoRad (PP)
• Waterpump pn# 997.106.011.02 (997 3.6L)
• Replace many coolant and AOS hoses
Oil System
• New Oil Filter, Napa
• New Filler Tube Seal, Reinz
• Replace scavenge pump if needed
• LNE billet oil pump hex driver $20
• OEM oil pump pressure spring & piston
• New Oil Level Dip Stick Seal, Reinz
• New Oil Guide Tube Seal, Reinz
• New Oil pressure sender
• New Oil Level Sender Seal, Reinz
• New oil cooler seals, 4x Reinz
• New Oil Pump Housing Gasket, Reinz
• New Oil Pump Housing O’rings, Reinz
• New Oil Pump Gaskets Reinz
• Magnetic Drain Plug LNE
• New Drain Plug Gasket Reinz
• 10 quarts BR break-in oil
Electrical
• New OXS (Amazon) $54
• New plugs
#67
Three Wheelin'
Bill, thanks for the great post. The pictures are very impressive. It looks like a skilled surgeon at work. I am thrilled to see the recipe for a 3.8 engine in a non-egas 3.4 No matter how hard I romp on mine, I can not get the engine to fail. If it ever does, your solution looks like fun.
#68
Rennlist Member
I was just thinking today so what if I loved my 996 enough to not sell it ever... and not buy a gt3...
how much would a 3.8 engine upgrade would cost ?
Many have done it on broken engines, for +-$15k, but i don't remember anybody doing it on an healthy engine. Would that be any cheaper ?
I am not really planning to do it myself, but for the sake of forum conversation, I figured that would be a good talk
how much would a 3.8 engine upgrade would cost ?
Many have done it on broken engines, for +-$15k, but i don't remember anybody doing it on an healthy engine. Would that be any cheaper ?
I am not really planning to do it myself, but for the sake of forum conversation, I figured that would be a good talk
The exception is if you just want to burn your money for fun. Nothing wrong with that, if you have the cash to burn and its what you want to do.
However, as others have said, you will never get that money back if/when you sell the car and you are always open to additional problems that you did not expect that chip away at your budget.
Seriously, buying a used GT3 would be a far, far better investment as you not only get a superior dry sump engine, but you get a better transmission, brakes, suspension, and chassis.
Additionally, the resale value on the GT3 will always be better than even a stock 996.
I daily drive my GT3 (81K miles now) and it's no big deal to drive these cars on the street.
#69
Seriously, buying a used GT3 would be a far, far better investment
I daily drive my GT3 (81K miles now) and it's no big deal to drive these cars on the street.
#70
#71
They are all mechanical devices built by men and women. Not sugar cubes built by magic gnomes. They all have issues and will break. Buy them, drive them, break them, fix them, repeat. If you want a garage queen, get a gold chain and a Ferrari.