fpb111

knock around on this site for some ideas. Maybe build a 3.8 or...?
http://www.lnengineering.com/boxster.html

jumper5836

Maybe pick up a front end damaged written off salvage car for the engine.
http://www.salvageautosauction.com/m...ter=&pageNum=6

ivangene

on a post you wrote - "I will remove the oil pan"

if you know the motor is shot dont mess around with this - it will just make motor removal a PITA and a mess

step 1, get the motor on the bench
step 2 rebuild
step 3 put motor in car
step 4 drive the wheels off that car knowing you can rebuild it if it ever dies again!

ECS Tuning

This is going to be a great thread Congrats on the purchase, I can't wait to see the progress. If your ever looking for a part free free to PM me with any questions or concerns.

Macster

Well, if the driver is aware of the situation, realizes the seriousness of the situation, the driver should shut down the engine. There have been 996 engines that have survived an IMS failure and been rebuilt (I came across one back several years (or more) ago) -- not requiring much in the way of parts either -- by a driver acting wisely and promptly.

In the case of the engine I spotted at a dealer it required a new IMS and IMSB and IMSB end plate, and at least one cam chain guide rail but except for the hardware that gets replaced no matter why the engine is torn down and reassembled nothing else.

Otherwise, while the engine may continue to run it will go from very sick but probably curable (fixable) to dead and scrap and not even useful for a core exchange in sometimes just seconds.

If the engine shuts down on its own it depends upon how it stops. If it just stops, valve piston contact probably occurred and the engine is very likely toast.

txhokie4life

More than likely you will have at a minimum.

Valve train damage. It's an interference engine and the IMS runs the timing.

You'll most likely have am damaged IMS tube. When the bearing fails
the tube starts wobbling and causes damage to the tube and
the shoulder socket it sits in which happens to be the oil pump
on the far side of the engine.

When the bearings let go -- they grind themselves into fine pieces
which sends debris in your engine which may or may not get caught
in your filter.

If you don't care to deal with trying to save this particular engine if possible,
I sent you a PM.

Mike

Flat6 Innovations

A local customer of ours has one of my 3.8 big bore engines, based from a 3.6 from 2003 for sale. It has never been installed and was built last year. His cost was 22K, I think he wants 17.5K for it.

Thats one choice.

I have had customers lose IMS Bearings while on my schedule for a retrofit as well. The instance was always "Its spring and I want to drive my car".

As with any IMS Bearing failure, the loss of the IMS Bearing may be the primary damage, but it is far from the damage that causes the mass hysteria that cost the most inside the engine. Remember that damages that extend from the loss of an IMS Bearing failure are always creates in regard to foreign object debris. The bearing will begin to shed ferromagnetic wear debris at stage 2 of the 4 stage failure and generally this debris clogs the oil filter and pops the factory bypass well into stage 3 of the failure. When the bypass opens material laden oil is fed to the main and rod bearings and the situation just got terminal. Even though the car was shut down promptly, it still featured a full IMS Bearing failure with all 4 stages and had plenty of time for internally lubricated components to be compromised by a filter bypass condition.

Collateral and secondary damages are what renders most of the engines worthless to repair without a full reconstruction. Please do not even attempt to reuse the IMS assembly/ tube as it has seen way too much trauma.

Upon teardown measure cylinders #2 and #5 for ovality and taper; if it is like most, it will fail this test horribly and you don't want to find this out later during the build process. The cylinders can visually look perfect, but measure horribly. Assume nothing and quantify everything. You might want to attend one of my classes or the "M96 101" engine rebuild school.

Imo000

Just because the dealer said its the IMS bearing, doesn't mean they were right. Best nkt to assume anything and start a systematic dignosys system. As I said before, drain the oil, have a good look at it, same thing with the filter, removing the "oil pan" only takes a few minutes and have a look at that too. It can be re installed in a few mimutes to keep the engine sealed during removal. I like to know how things are as soon as I can and that's what I did when I started my 996 project.

Fierofly

Want to thank Everyone for their inputs. I'm hopin to at least remove the oil pan this weekend. The dealer handed the previous owner what was left of the stud and nut that holds the shaft in. I'm thinkin it's probably toast, but I'm still gonna enjoy tearing this motor down anyway, then I'll post many pictures and weigh my options. Curious about what other years Porsche motors would fit without alot of trouble?

996FLT6

Why not shoehorn a gt3 motor instead : ). Always a fan of the 996 c4s body. Mike

txhokie4life

That is a pretty good smoking gun :-)

I had one where I put the car on the lift -- looked up and could see the IMS
bolt face down between the bellhousing and engine. That was an easy diagnosis.

Once we disassembled -- the internal carnage was -- ummmm bad :-(

Mike

Flat6 Innovations

Yep, you mean this one... These make our job easier.

jumper5836

I have never heard of anyone doing that.

KrazyK

JR, thats awesome. Great pic. When are you selling the stroker kits?

To the OP: +1 on the salvage engines. You can buy a whole salvage car much cheaper, pull and rebuild engine if you want to.

Or, buy JR's 3.8 for the best solution. 17K's a steal.

Please POST pics of the carnage!

Fierofly

So I posted a Thread asking if there was a thread calling all IMS failures and, if NOT, let’s start one that keeps a record of year, model and mileage and known driving conditions of these failures. You’d thought I’d slapped your mama or something. It was closed by a moderator almost immediately. He claims he was asked by fellow members to stop the IMS failure conversations cause it leads to too many arguments about the validity and cause of this problem. That members where tired of reading about it. REALLY! You people just can’t, NOT click on those threads. Anyway ,Enough about THAT. I’ve been a mechanic my whole life, USAF Aircraft, B52, KC135, A10, I’ve also rebuilt just about every American made motor out there. I just started riding and working on Harleys (2011 FatBoy Lo} about 2yrs ago, so believe me, I know about Brand loyalty on Forums, but at least they’ll talk about it and try to defend.
I’ve only been interested in Porsche for about 2 weeks now and have been reading and studying the flat 6 since. What I’ve found so far is a severely flawed design in the IMS shaft that any engineer should have Identified and fixed many years ago. Who in their right mind would have installed an ISOLATED, sealed, ROLLER bearing in the middle of an engine crankcase? Maybe because people where too proud to openly talk about it in fear of damaging the Porsche reputation, I just DON’T get it.
Anyway, here is my plan for a mint condition 2003 C4S 64,459mi great handling, fun to drive, IMS FAILURE, car. A Renegade, LS3 or LS7 install for the simple reason that Porsche screwed up the design on THIS engine and a LS, 430hp minimum engine, with the handling of this car is going to be phenomenal. The reliability of a LS compared to the maintenance cost and time bomb feeling on a 996 is enough to convince me that this is the right choice. Now Question IS, do I continue to POST on this forum or should I move on, since I’m planning on documenting every step of this build, including the teardown of the 996 motor.
Let Me know how YOU feel
MSgt Michael Thompson USAF