Why do people look down on the 996?
01-24-2013, 12:38 PM
#46
Parts Specialist
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fixed
01-24-2013, 12:53 PM
#48
As they become cheaper to buy they attract more people who can afford the buy-in but not the maintenance, it can become a downward spiral.
914/924/944/928 - All at one time or another had plenty of clapped out heaps on the roads, those end up going to the crusher when something major fails or they get into (another) fender bender. As a result the remaining population dwindles and all of a sudden people realize they are getting kind of rare and the good ones start to increase in value.
964 - Relatively limited production numbers; but some well publicized early problems (likely resolved on every car still out there, which people are beginning to realize) saw values go down a lot but now increasing over the last few years as the shape is beginning to be considered classic with modern touches (original shape, integrated bumpers etc).
993 - As the last of the air-cooled's which became common knowledge somewhere around the middle of the production run, there was always a following, never letting values decrease as much on a percentage basis as the cars before and after.
986/996 - Well-publicized (and overblown IMO) potential issues (widespread awareness mainly due to the internet age and increased information accessibility) and large production numbers along with Porsche aggressively offering lease deals saw values go down into the range where "everyman" could again afford the buy-in but not necessarily the upkeep. We ARE now seeing some clapped out heaps driving around, especially in population centers where there was a large volume sold. Still many more very nice examples but the bad ones ARE out there. Eventually (sooner rather than later) those will be weeded out and the performance vs. cost ratio will build the values back up. Due to production volume this will take longer, but we tell everyone on here who is looking for a car to take your time, the good one is out there, there are a lot of them and don't bother with the others. We can say that because it is true due to the numbers sold. If on the other hand, you're looking for a Donohue-driven 917, well, if that's what you want for your collection and someone is selling one, you'd better go get a bidder card now and buy it almost regardless of condition as the chances are few and far between....
997 - Values are probably a bit higher than they should be as they are looked on as the "not a 996" car but in reality are very similar especially the engine. As this gets realized more and there are more 991's out there as the "New/Current" car, this will start to depress their values a bit more.
Bottom line is as far as Performance / Value / Usability / Cost of Ownership / DIY Maintainability of all the 911 series the 996 offers by far the best ratio and this will likely continue. Values can increase a lot and this would still hold true overall.
914/924/944/928 - All at one time or another had plenty of clapped out heaps on the roads, those end up going to the crusher when something major fails or they get into (another) fender bender. As a result the remaining population dwindles and all of a sudden people realize they are getting kind of rare and the good ones start to increase in value.
964 - Relatively limited production numbers; but some well publicized early problems (likely resolved on every car still out there, which people are beginning to realize) saw values go down a lot but now increasing over the last few years as the shape is beginning to be considered classic with modern touches (original shape, integrated bumpers etc).
993 - As the last of the air-cooled's which became common knowledge somewhere around the middle of the production run, there was always a following, never letting values decrease as much on a percentage basis as the cars before and after.
986/996 - Well-publicized (and overblown IMO) potential issues (widespread awareness mainly due to the internet age and increased information accessibility) and large production numbers along with Porsche aggressively offering lease deals saw values go down into the range where "everyman" could again afford the buy-in but not necessarily the upkeep. We ARE now seeing some clapped out heaps driving around, especially in population centers where there was a large volume sold. Still many more very nice examples but the bad ones ARE out there. Eventually (sooner rather than later) those will be weeded out and the performance vs. cost ratio will build the values back up. Due to production volume this will take longer, but we tell everyone on here who is looking for a car to take your time, the good one is out there, there are a lot of them and don't bother with the others. We can say that because it is true due to the numbers sold. If on the other hand, you're looking for a Donohue-driven 917, well, if that's what you want for your collection and someone is selling one, you'd better go get a bidder card now and buy it almost regardless of condition as the chances are few and far between....
997 - Values are probably a bit higher than they should be as they are looked on as the "not a 996" car but in reality are very similar especially the engine. As this gets realized more and there are more 991's out there as the "New/Current" car, this will start to depress their values a bit more.
Bottom line is as far as Performance / Value / Usability / Cost of Ownership / DIY Maintainability of all the 911 series the 996 offers by far the best ratio and this will likely continue. Values can increase a lot and this would still hold true overall.
01-24-2013, 01:08 PM
#49
I was reading a book the other day about the whole Boxster/996 development.
Apparently Porsche was in such dire straits financially that the bean counter in charge of the new cars refused to allow the 996 to have "non-Boxster" headlights. The compromise was to give the 996 a different bumper.
Right before the fried eggs were first unveiled on the Boxster many were wondering if this would be the last car show for Porsche under its own independent ownership. Toyota was lurking for a bargain. Immediately after the launch of the Boxster Porsche started receiving deposits from buyers which meant that the Boxster had to go into production ASAP for 1996 (in Europe, 1997 in the USA) to save the company and could not be delayed until 1999 when the 996 would be launched. The timing of that meant that the 'purist' crowd would ridicule the first water-cooled Porsche for taking everything from the doors to the front bumper and including the interior from the less expensive Boxster. Ironic thing is that if you randomly pulled a part off the Boxster you're more likely to be holding a part # that starts with a 996 than 986. But circumstance meant that the Boxster go to the red carpet first. When funds weren't as tight at Porsche they allowed plans for the 996 to get the Turbo headlights.
p.s.
as far as depreciation. The 997 and 991 (with round headlights) will lose value no differently than the 996 has. $20K will get you which ever water-cooled Porsche you desire as long as you're okay with waiting. Not sure that those early 911's and 964's will ever come down though. If I was looking for a third car that saw little mileage annually I wouldn't think twice about buying an air-cooled Porsche.
Apparently Porsche was in such dire straits financially that the bean counter in charge of the new cars refused to allow the 996 to have "non-Boxster" headlights. The compromise was to give the 996 a different bumper.
Right before the fried eggs were first unveiled on the Boxster many were wondering if this would be the last car show for Porsche under its own independent ownership. Toyota was lurking for a bargain. Immediately after the launch of the Boxster Porsche started receiving deposits from buyers which meant that the Boxster had to go into production ASAP for 1996 (in Europe, 1997 in the USA) to save the company and could not be delayed until 1999 when the 996 would be launched. The timing of that meant that the 'purist' crowd would ridicule the first water-cooled Porsche for taking everything from the doors to the front bumper and including the interior from the less expensive Boxster. Ironic thing is that if you randomly pulled a part off the Boxster you're more likely to be holding a part # that starts with a 996 than 986. But circumstance meant that the Boxster go to the red carpet first. When funds weren't as tight at Porsche they allowed plans for the 996 to get the Turbo headlights.
p.s.
as far as depreciation. The 997 and 991 (with round headlights) will lose value no differently than the 996 has. $20K will get you which ever water-cooled Porsche you desire as long as you're okay with waiting. Not sure that those early 911's and 964's will ever come down though. If I was looking for a third car that saw little mileage annually I wouldn't think twice about buying an air-cooled Porsche.
01-24-2013, 02:08 PM
#50
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. I think a big reason is the fact that the 996 911 has a wet sump engine (except the GT3 & Turbo). 911's of the past were dry sump. It's not a 911 designed to take to the track. Oil starvation is a problem, even on street tires if you are a good driver. The car is a street car by design.
01-24-2013, 02:17 PM
#51
It's not a 911 designed to take to the track. Oil starvation is a problem, even on street tires if you are a good driver. The car is a street car by design.
BTY welcome to the forum.
01-24-2013, 02:36 PM
#54
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Walter Rohrl?
Excuse me, Sir, Walter Rohrl, but are you THE Walter Rohrl?!
You dont seem to sad on the official 996 C4S Commercial ;-)
Actually, this clip was inspiering me to get a 996 Carrera 4S...
Sorry for the OT, feeling kind of Starstruck...!
/Gladestone
You dont seem to sad on the official 996 C4S Commercial ;-)
Actually, this clip was inspiering me to get a 996 Carrera 4S...
Sorry for the OT, feeling kind of Starstruck...!
/Gladestone
01-24-2013, 02:48 PM
#55
speaking of the real Walter Rohrl. He was once asked to put together a top 10 list of Carreras he'd driven.
The entire 996 line up was conspicously absent from the list. And it wasn't just a water-cooled bias, he did include some of the 997 Carreras.
The entire 996 line up was conspicously absent from the list. And it wasn't just a water-cooled bias, he did include some of the 997 Carreras.
01-24-2013, 02:51 PM
#56
I think a big reason is the fact that the 996 911 has a wet sump engine (except the GT3 & Turbo). 911's of the past were dry sump. It's not a 911 designed to take to the track. Oil starvation is a problem, even on street tires if you are a good driver. The car is a street car by design.
If anything, more water-cooled 911's were driven in their native settings.
So once again... there's romantic myth and then there's the practical reality.
01-24-2013, 03:03 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
964 - Relatively limited production numbers; but some well publicized early problems (likely resolved on every car still out there, which people are beginning to realize) saw values go down a lot but now increasing over the last few years as the shape is beginning to be considered classic with modern touches (original shape, integrated bumpers etc)...............
Bottom line is as far as Performance / Value / Usability / Cost of Ownership / DIY Maintainability of all the 911 series the 996 offers by far the best ratio and this will likely continue. Values can increase a lot and this would still hold true overall.
Bottom line is as far as Performance / Value / Usability / Cost of Ownership / DIY Maintainability of all the 911 series the 996 offers by far the best ratio and this will likely continue. Values can increase a lot and this would still hold true overall.
Last sentence is incorrect. Simple economics will tell you that value can only increase if demand outstrips supply. This will never be the case for regular 996s and 997s. Competition for weekend DE cars are fierce with plenty of options.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. I think a big reason is the fact that the 996 911 has a wet sump engine (except the GT3 & Turbo). 911's of the past were dry sump. It's not a 911 designed to take to the track. Oil starvation is a problem, even on street tires if you are a good driver. The car is a street car by design.
01-24-2013, 03:24 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
914/924/944/928 - All at one time or another had plenty of clapped out heaps on the roads, those end up going to the crusher when something major fails or they get into (another) fender bender. As a result the remaining population dwindles and all of a sudden people realize they are getting kind of rare and the good ones start to increase in value.
01-24-2013, 03:40 PM
#60
Race Director
