Dennis C

Well, the time has come to consider some mods for early in 2013. Here's the situation:

I drive my C4S daily, so any mods that I do need to be acceptable on a DD. That being said, I am planning on quite a bit of track work this summer. The car currently is running the stock C4S suspension. It has Fister D mufflers, but other than that the exhaust system is stock. I'm running standard C4S brakes, but I need new pads and rotors all the way around. Here are a few mods I'm considering:

• Instead of just replacing the brakes with the standard parts, I'm considering upgrading to GT3 6-piston calipers and 350mm rotors. I would then sell my existing calipers to recoup some of the money spent for the new ones. This also appeals to me because my calipers need to be refinished.
• I'm really considering a suspension upgrade. I was originally thinking X73, but I'm currently leaning towards PSS10. I do live in the mountains, and I'm concerned about ground clearance issues. I might replace the brakes with stock parts and then do the suspension too.
• I am also considering some additional upgrades to the exhaust system, such as sport cats and headers.
• I'd like some new wheels for my summer tires, and something lighter weight might be nice for the track too. I could even buy a set of dedicated track wheels and tires.

At this point, I'm leaning towards either brake or suspension upgrades first. My budget doesn't allow GT3 brakes and PSS10s.

Decisions, decisions...

Sneaky Pete

Wow Dennis, sounds like you got bit by the bug! Good for you......tracking the car brings a whole new appreciation to our cars. Not sure if you have tracked much from your previous posts. If you have, I might be stating things you already know.

My 2 pennies......

Brakes = I would keep the brakes stock plus ALOT cheaper than GT3's. Your's are the same brakes that are on Turbo's. They have a ton of braking power. Get your calipers rebuilt with new seals, refinish them, change the rotors and get new stock pads for DD. Get a set of track pads. Our calipers are easy to change the pads on. Also get a Motive bleeder, amazing how fresh fluid and pads can add to your stopping power.

Suspension / exhaust / track tires = All good stuff but I would save the $$$ and spend it on track time. DE's range from $300 - $400 per weekend. I tracked my car 2 years before I did any major upgrades because I figured I needed to learn how to drive my car first.....not saying you don't know how it's just that driving at track speeds is completely different than daily driving. I thought I was a decent driver when I first went to the track but I didn't know jack $hit.

Hope this helps.

Hardback

Dennis, bang for buck I would go with suspension. You can upgrade your brake pads to PFC or Pagid for 500+. Our brake system is burly enough to get the job done. I installed coilovers this year and was impressed with the new grip and balance I achieved. PSS10 are expensive but should last for years and are rebuildable. Budget $1100 for install, alignment and corner balance. If you are tracking the car it is definitely worthwhile to have a second set of wheels. Hollow spoke twists come up for sale quite often for $500-1000 but the OZ alleggherita Are even lighter in 8.5 and 12" widths. Gunmetal, black or racing gold would add some attitude. Im almost finished modding my car. The items I plan on installing this year are GT3 buckets, harnesses and GMG roll bar. Yeah, it's a disease...

Dennis C

Thanks Pete. I've done quite a bit of track time in the past, but not in is car. I definitely plan to invest time and money in DE events and other instruction - that's going to happen regardless of the mods to the car!

Generally, I'm not a fan of "bling". If I'm going to spend money on the car, I want it to be spent on mods that enhance the performance in some way. The only exception might be wheels, and even then, I wouldn't go for anything crazy.

Sneaky Pete

Well in that case I would go for the suspension and keep the brakes stock. Pagids or PFC's are great pads. Stay away from track tires for a little so you can feel the suspension. I'm finally looking at them after 5 years of tracking. Some guys go for the whole enchilada right away for getting their DD set for the track. Thing is they are learning artificially because they don't know what upgrade did what. I was told baby steps.

Dennis C

Yeah, I know the stock C4S brakes are pretty stout. I'm sure they'd be fine, especially with some pads that are more track oriented. I just keep drooling over the big red GT3 brakes...

Maybe I'll do the suspension upgrade first and keep my C4S brakes. That seems to make quite a bit of sense, considering my budget and how I plan to use the car. The way I understand it, the PSS10s are adjustable, so I could soften the ride up for daily driving and then dial it in more aggressively for the track. That appeals to me. Does this require a change to the alignment, or is it just a change in the stiffness/ride quality?

Sneaky Pete

I don't think you need an alignment everytime you soften / stiffen the ride. Just need the initial one done with new suspension. But the PSS10 allows you to raise / lower the car too. That might need an alignment. What says the bilstein crowd?

Dennis C

Which coilovers did you install? Pros and cons vs. PSS10?

Dennis C

I looked back at my records, and I did get a quote from my independent mechanic/Porsche performance shop for PSS10s. They quoted me $2,783.12 for the parts, and then when you add in shipping, labor, ride height adjustment and a 4-wheel alignment it comes to: $3,948.57 plus tax. It's not an inexpensive proposition.

steepsnow

I am in Genesee, not too far from you. My 1999 C4 is a 1/2 daily driver with a 2000 Rover Disco II as the other 1/2. I have PSS10/H&R Sways on the C4 and a 2" lift on the Rover; both are my favorite mods to each vehicle.

For track and DD, plus winter use, you should plan on some easy/fast adjustments for the season and track use that will the optimize the car's performance for each type of use. Seasonal adjustments are important for summer and winter and take a little more time (tires, pads, sway-bar adjustments). Below are some thoughts from my experiences here in CO...


Re: Suspension
PSS10 combined with adjustable sway bars are a sweet upgrade for a Colorado DD also used for some track days!

The ability to adjust the stiffness front-to-back helps being able to "tune" the car to correct for understeer at the track, then bring back some understeer for winter use, plus have a setting in-between for daily use. It is simple to change the settings with a twist and a click - with visible numbers. The sways are pretty easy to adjust, but require the car on jack stands and wheels off. I adjust the PSS10 frequently and the sways seasonally for summer/winter.

For example:
At HPR, I set the PSS10 to 7 in the front and 10 in the rear. The track has tight, slow turns where it is nice to have the rear stiff to help it come around quickly (turns 6, 8 and 11). Summer sways are soft in the front and stiff in the rear.

For normal DD, I run 6 front and 8 rear. A little less harsh for rolling around downtown, but still fun a romp in the hills.

For winter use, I run the PSS10 with 3 in the front and 2 in the rear. The sways are set to the middle setting in the front and soft in the rear. This is to increase understeer.

On the snow, when playing (typically at slower speeds in parking lot or a mountain road), I can throttle-steer to control oversteer or even use a little trailing throttle oversteer to get it rotating. However, on a crowded highway at speed (if some emergency "avoidance" steering is required), the understeer can help the rear under control. The softer settings also help improve winter grip.

For Height and Alignment, winter and track use are also opposites. Height requires a little more effort to adjust and requires an alignment. So, you can either stay close to stock as a compromise or pay for a seasonal alignment. BTW - track alignments tweaks like some rear toe-in are terrible on snow/ice.

At the highest setting, the PSS10 is just a little lower than stock. The lowest you can go without changing more suspension parts is about GT3 street alignment.

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Re: Brakes
Other than the aesthetics of refinishing the calipers...
The main issue at the track is heat. Especially as you start getting faster, the brakes will get hot. A squishy pedal after getting them too hot is scary and a dead petal (no brakes) from "boiling" can be terrifying. Heh, regarding calipers, mine used to be silver, but are now a gold color after a few years of track use.

Some low-cost upgrades that make a big difference in regards to heat are: GT3 brake ducts (more air flow), stainless lines and upgraded fluid (I use ProSpeed, some like Motul).

I now use PFC pads at the track (all summer) and stock pads in the winter.
Watch the pad thickness. At the track, you cannot run them down to the wear indicators. The pad material is part of the heat insulation from the calipers. Thin pads allow more heat to transfer, thus possible boiling of the brake fluid.

I used Stock Rotors for a couple years which worked fine for the typical 25 min PCA, DE sessions or 30 min open-lapping days sessions.

I have now upgraded to GiroDisk Rotors which have a larger diameter (using spacers for the calipers) and they are awesome. Even after 45 minutes at HPR I have no fade or squishy pedal feel. (45 min happens occasionally on an open-lapping day with a totally open track - no session times). I am going to leave the rotors on for the winter, but this is my first winter with them, however, I will still go back to stock pads.

Track Pads need to have heat to work properly. The stopping distance is increased and unpredictable with them in the winter. When cruising on the highway in the snow , they get COLD and wet. You need to "drag" them to heat them up before using an off-ramp or you might miss the stop by much more that you might imagine. Thus, swapping back to stock for winter is the way to go.


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Re: Tires

For track use, initially the street tires are fine. However, as you improve on the track, you will start wearing them out too quickly and want to move to a DOT, R-Compound tire. which you can use to drive too/from the track. (Since you have a DD, I assume you wont use a traile to bring your car to the track). In the long run, it will actually cost less to use to the better tires, plus they are more fun. I like the Falken 615K, but the Nitto NT-01 are very similar.

I think it is best to have a set of track wheels for those tires. It is a quick swap for track days. Grab a set here on RL, then sell them back on RL later. Unless you damage them, they will hold most of their value. The only issue I have had is "garage space."


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Have fun shopping for the mods!!!

Dennis C

Great feedback from a local! I appreciate it.

I like the adjustability offered by the PSS10s, but I seriously doubt that I'd adjust it as much as you do. I'm actually fine with a GT3 height, and I could see myself leaving the ride height the same all the time. It would be nice to have it a little lower than it is now, but I don't want the car to look "slammed". One of the things that appeals to me about the X73 (aside from it being a Porsche suspension) is the "set it and forget it" simplicity. It makes me wonder if PSS10s are more than I need...

Good suggestions on the brake upgrades. I'm already running ProSpeed fluid, and I've considered the GT3 air ducts to improve cooling. That's an inexpensive mod.

I am currently running Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires in the warmer months, and I have no intention of changing them. I think I'll keep them for my track use and street use for the summer of 2013.

This really is a slippery slope...

Hardback

I found a new set of H&R coilovers. They were half the price of the bilsteins. From what ive read H&R makes springs for bilstein and bilstein makes the struts for H&R. Very good quality and Im happy with them. They are stiffer than stock setup and allowed me to lower the car significantly. Unlike the bilsteins they have no dampening adjustment. At the time of install we added tarret camber plates since my shock mounts were unusable. Also, I added the adjustable GT3 sway bar up front to reduce body roll and allow some fine tuning. Im not sure how far you want to take it but Im satisfied with my setup. The car is still very streetable with the exception that I now scrape the splitter on driveways. I can live with that as splitters are consumables in my mind.

Regarding the x73... they are not available. Gert at Carnewal wasnt sure when or if he would have them again.

yoda888

I have a non-4s, so no AWD for me.

I was (still am) in the same boat. x74 or PSSS10s? I like that on the PSSS10s you can adjust the dampening for DD driving and go crazy at the track. But the $$ question for me, is will I want to do that and monkey around with it. The x74 is "set it and forget it." What to do! I'd be interested to hear what you decide on (though it may be moot if you can't locate the x73)

I did test drive a 4s before with the x73, it was AWESOME!

Black_on_black

Nobody has mentioned oil system upgrade...? Accusump is something I would consider before track next time. My first in this car saw the gauge fluctuate in right long sweeper...

Dennis C

I just heard from Gert at Carnewal. The X73 and X74 kits have been discontinued by Porsche and will never be produced again. So much for that option!