Tire wear question - Pilot A/S
07-19-2012, 01:52 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Tire wear question - Pilot A/S
Hello my experts - I have a tire wear question - I have Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on my c4 (Rear Tires, the 265's). I bought these tires 6/11. Well, I have a wonderful 6 inch bolt stuck in the middle of the tread, driver side - so - new tire and I have Extended warranty.
Dobb's here in STL, said that they will pro-rate the tire @170. (They were 400 ea)
So here's my question - in less than 4,000 miles, half of the tread is gone? How many miles was I supposed to get I have seen on the forums that usually about 12-15k depending how you drive.
What's the deal - I am prepared to in there half pissed off- or should I be grateful???
Dobb's here in STL, said that they will pro-rate the tire @170. (They were 400 ea)
So here's my question - in less than 4,000 miles, half of the tread is gone? How many miles was I supposed to get I have seen on the forums that usually about 12-15k depending how you drive.
What's the deal - I am prepared to in there half pissed off- or should I be grateful???
07-19-2012, 01:57 PM
#2
I'd ask for the current tread depth. The new tread depth is typically 10/32". Most people stop running tires at a depth of 2/32". So you have 8/32 of life in the tire. If you've used up 4/32 you're at the halfway point...you can calculate the cost from there.
S.
S.
07-19-2012, 03:43 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
You would think all season tires (which is a crime on this car IMO) would last well beyond a comparable summer tire, even on this car.
i would expect to get 20K+ out of the rears if they were all seasons.
Need to check the tread depth and what is the wear rating?
On tirerack.com the UTQG rating is 500 for a Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus. I know this guide really doesn't mean that much but 500 is well higher than any summer tire.
And the tire in questions is only $215 at tirerack. You paid $400 for one?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...35&diameter=18
i would expect to get 20K+ out of the rears if they were all seasons.
Need to check the tread depth and what is the wear rating?
On tirerack.com the UTQG rating is 500 for a Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus. I know this guide really doesn't mean that much but 500 is well higher than any summer tire.
And the tire in questions is only $215 at tirerack. You paid $400 for one?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...35&diameter=18
Last edited by soverystout; 07-19-2012 at 04:02 PM.
07-19-2012, 03:59 PM
#4
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8000 is about right for a summer tire on a 911, I don't know about the A/S
My Cayenne blasts through all seasons Conti DWS's that are rated for50K miles in 20K miles.
My Cayenne blasts through all seasons Conti DWS's that are rated for50K miles in 20K miles.
07-19-2012, 04:01 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
I also drive a C4 and the Pilot Sport A/S (17") are my current winter tires. They were on the car when I purchased it CPO in May 2006. I estimate I've gotten about 10K miles of use out of them so far, mostly in colder weather. The rear tires probably have about 3mm on the inner tread and a little more on the outer. I'm not sure how much tread they had to begin with but I think they were fairly new. They probably wear faster for you in the Summer and I'm probably less aggressive with these than my 18" tires set. That said, 4K seems like poor mileage for an all-season tire.
BTW- the 18" are only $260/ea. on Tirerack in the wider 285
BTW- the 18" are only $260/ea. on Tirerack in the wider 285
07-19-2012, 04:09 PM
#6
Race Director
Hello my experts - I have a tire wear question - I have Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on my c4 (Rear Tires, the 265's). I bought these tires 6/11. Well, I have a wonderful 6 inch bolt stuck in the middle of the tread, driver side - so - new tire and I have Extended warranty.
Dobb's here in STL, said that they will pro-rate the tire @170. (They were 400 ea)
So here's my question - in less than 4,000 miles, half of the tread is gone? How many miles was I supposed to get I have seen on the forums that usually about 12-15k depending how you drive.
What's the deal - I am prepared to in there half pissed off- or should I be grateful???
Dobb's here in STL, said that they will pro-rate the tire @170. (They were 400 ea)
So here's my question - in less than 4,000 miles, half of the tread is gone? How many miles was I supposed to get I have seen on the forums that usually about 12-15k depending how you drive.
What's the deal - I am prepared to in there half pissed off- or should I be grateful???
By way of example:I just had a rear tire on my 996 Turbo pick up a screw. The screw was close to the sidewall, about in the middle of the last row of tread blocks just before the sidewall.
The tire was patched but the tire shop tech told me the tire should be replaced, that it would not hold air.
He was right.
After speaking to the SM at the dealer where I had bought the tires and had them mounted/balanced I learned that when I had bought the tires I had also purchased some tire road hazard coverage. IIRC at a cost of around $7/tire.
To be covered the wear limit was 2 mm. The tires still had 3 mm of tread left.
Now, believe it or not the tires (oh, Bridgestone) went on at 72K miles. The car had just at 95K miles. So the tires had racked up 23K miles and still had some tread left.
The good news is the tire with the screw was replaced, covered by this road hazard coverage, at no cost to me. Since the other tire was worn down though I had to replace it. This was necessary because Porsche only allows a 30% difference in tread wear between tires on the same axle.
I have to stress that I have had this car aligned, IIRC back when I had the tires fitted at 72K miles. Also, I monitor both of my cars' tire wear for any signs of an alignment problem. The tire wear did not show any signs of alignment problems, so this time I did not have the car aligned.
I can't do anything for you regarding the amount of credit you get towards a new replacement tire.
All I can do is urge you to be sure the car has a proper alignment which will maximize tire life.
BTW, one rear tire for the 996 Turbo cost nearly $500/mounted and balanced.
Tire prices are high and going higher!
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-19-2012, 04:12 PM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
You would think all season tires (which is a crime on this car IMO) would last well beyond a comparable summer tire, even on this car.
i would expect to get 20K+ out of the rears if they were all seasons.
Need to check the tread depth and what is the wear rating?
On tirerack.com the UTQG rating is 500 for a Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus. I know this guide really doesn't mean that much but 500 is well higher than any summer tire.
And the tire in questions is only $215 at tirerack. You paid $400 for one?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...35&diameter=18
i would expect to get 20K+ out of the rears if they were all seasons.
Need to check the tread depth and what is the wear rating?
On tirerack.com the UTQG rating is 500 for a Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus. I know this guide really doesn't mean that much but 500 is well higher than any summer tire.
And the tire in questions is only $215 at tirerack. You paid $400 for one?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...35&diameter=18
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07-19-2012, 06:21 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
The Pilot A/S Plus is rated for 45k miles IF both F&R are the same size and can be rotated. If they are different size F&R, then warranty is 1/2 rated or 22.5k miles. This true of every Michelin tire. I thought it did not matter not how much tread is left when hazard occurs, during the first 3 years, IIRC, but how many miles are on them. If receipt shows installation 4k miles ago, then the remaining tire life should be 18.5/22.5 so round down to 80%. But perhaps the Hazard insurance is written specifically base don tread depth, in which case, you want to know what depths thay are and argue that. Hazard insurance is only valid at place of purchase, but seems to me they should only make you pay 20% of the purchase price, based on Michelins mileage warranty . Mount and balance is never included. $400 is crazy for one. Are you sure that's what the receipt says for just one tire? I have them on my Mini Clubman, ans so far they've been wearing GREAT!
07-19-2012, 06:36 PM
#10
Drifting
OP,
You need to have alignment checked, these cars come from the factory with a healthy does of toe-in for the rear tires to keep the rear-end in check during spirited cornering, this toe-in contributes to scrubbing of the tires as they are not rolling forward 100%, i.e. they are rolling forward with both rear tires turned inwards by the amount of toe-in.
The previous/original owner of my car told me he wore through the rear tires quite quickly, he said he basically changed the rear tires twice for every set of front tires.
I bought brand new tires when I got the car last Aug., and noticed this spring more wear on the inside of both rear tires after 3,000 miles, so I had an alignment done at a well respected Porsche race shop to ensure all corners are aligned and to take out a little bit of rear toe-in to reduce the scrubbing related wear, but still safe for general street driving as long as I don't try to push the car to the limit.
You need to have alignment checked, these cars come from the factory with a healthy does of toe-in for the rear tires to keep the rear-end in check during spirited cornering, this toe-in contributes to scrubbing of the tires as they are not rolling forward 100%, i.e. they are rolling forward with both rear tires turned inwards by the amount of toe-in.
The previous/original owner of my car told me he wore through the rear tires quite quickly, he said he basically changed the rear tires twice for every set of front tires.
I bought brand new tires when I got the car last Aug., and noticed this spring more wear on the inside of both rear tires after 3,000 miles, so I had an alignment done at a well respected Porsche race shop to ensure all corners are aligned and to take out a little bit of rear toe-in to reduce the scrubbing related wear, but still safe for general street driving as long as I don't try to push the car to the limit.
Last edited by aviography; 07-19-2012 at 10:30 PM.
07-19-2012, 10:08 PM
#11
that seems like excessive wear...I had the A/S+ on my car for 22k+ miles including 6 track days, and only had to ditch them because of chunking on the inside of the rears (last track day and almost no neg camber really did them)...otherwise, there was 50%+ of the tread left on the on the rest of the tires...
Not sure about the "average wear", but I have ~10K miles and 7 track days with the MPSS tires, and there is still 50%+ tread left...
Not sure about the "average wear", but I have ~10K miles and 7 track days with the MPSS tires, and there is still 50%+ tread left...
07-19-2012, 11:19 PM
#12
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First off be thankful and use this as an excuse to get real tires 
haha.
Honestly though I would maybe see if the puncture is repairable. if the hole is less than 1/2" in diameter and within atleast a 1/2" of the shoulder on either side the tire is considered repairable.
Depending on how they want to work it, I know with my shop our manufacturers state that the tread wear marks are at 3/32" and new range from 8-12/32 so you have a wear range of 5-9/32" of treadlife in a tire.
When we have a tire come back under road hazard warranty, it is not covered my the manufacturer, but is out of our shops pocket. Manufacturer only covers the product if it is failure is because of manufacturer defect. The head office for our franchise states that the road hazard program we offer through our shop is that we measure tread depth at the lowest point in the tire, then charge for installation and a $15 processing fee, and the difference in whatever is remaining in the range from the original tread depth to the wear bars, so say you had a tire that stars with 8/32" and you wear it down to 5, that means you have 2/32" remaining of life. You would get 40% of the original purchase price back, be charged the rest at full price, no discounts applicable, full price on installation, and the $15 fee. I know most of the time at my shop we do not use the road hazard warranty program because we can usually cut pricing enough that them buying a new tire discounted will cost less than the warranty program and then my shop still gets a sale.
With cars like porsches you are obviously going to have uneven wear because of the cars alignment, so while the outside shoulders look fine the inners will be trash. This is especially true for that junk you have called the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season. It is a directional tread meaning that there is no inside or outside to the tire like a proper Asymmetric which you should have on the car. Having a directional means your inner tire tread pattern and rubber will be the same as an the outer, but since the inner takes 75% of the abuse you show your tires it will wear substancially quicker. A proper Asymmetric tire will be built better on the inside edge usually to prevent terribly uneven wear that is normally associated with a directional or other tire design.
haha. Honestly though I would maybe see if the puncture is repairable. if the hole is less than 1/2" in diameter and within atleast a 1/2" of the shoulder on either side the tire is considered repairable.
Depending on how they want to work it, I know with my shop our manufacturers state that the tread wear marks are at 3/32" and new range from 8-12/32 so you have a wear range of 5-9/32" of treadlife in a tire.
When we have a tire come back under road hazard warranty, it is not covered my the manufacturer, but is out of our shops pocket. Manufacturer only covers the product if it is failure is because of manufacturer defect. The head office for our franchise states that the road hazard program we offer through our shop is that we measure tread depth at the lowest point in the tire, then charge for installation and a $15 processing fee, and the difference in whatever is remaining in the range from the original tread depth to the wear bars, so say you had a tire that stars with 8/32" and you wear it down to 5, that means you have 2/32" remaining of life. You would get 40% of the original purchase price back, be charged the rest at full price, no discounts applicable, full price on installation, and the $15 fee. I know most of the time at my shop we do not use the road hazard warranty program because we can usually cut pricing enough that them buying a new tire discounted will cost less than the warranty program and then my shop still gets a sale.
With cars like porsches you are obviously going to have uneven wear because of the cars alignment, so while the outside shoulders look fine the inners will be trash. This is especially true for that junk you have called the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season. It is a directional tread meaning that there is no inside or outside to the tire like a proper Asymmetric which you should have on the car. Having a directional means your inner tire tread pattern and rubber will be the same as an the outer, but since the inner takes 75% of the abuse you show your tires it will wear substancially quicker. A proper Asymmetric tire will be built better on the inside edge usually to prevent terribly uneven wear that is normally associated with a directional or other tire design.
07-19-2012, 11:41 PM
#13
Machbx I have those same Pilot A/S on my audi and after about 10,000 miles got a lag bolt in the sidewall. Discount Tire gave me a brand new one for $31. We may have different warranties but I still think you should have paid less for the replacement. I would think you should get 12 - 15k miles out of that tire.
07-20-2012, 12:00 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Machbx I have those same Pilot A/S on my audi and after about 10,000 miles got a lag bolt in the sidewall. Discount Tire gave me a brand new one for $31. We may have different warranties but I still think you should have paid less for the replacement. I would think you should get 12 - 15k miles out of that tire.
