How many miles should we expect from the 996 engine?
05-30-2012, 05:46 PM
#16
Race Director
Briefly, well, brief for me, no one can say.
As I think I've mentioned before generally modern internal combustion engines are expected to be able to deliver 10K hours run time.
Assuming an average speed of 30mph, that 300K miles. (I might add that I have covered over 255K miles in my 02 Boxster and the last time I checked its average speed is very close to 30mph. So I'm closing in on that 300K mile mark. We'll have to see what the future holds.)
Also, I have read -- the source escapes me -- that to certify an engine for sale in the USA the engine in a vehicle must be run/driven for 100K miles with no servicing allowed but the scheduled (based on miles covered) of vital fluids (oil) and filters (oil and intake air filters).
Even for those engines that have rubber camshaft timing belts these can't be replaced. Neither can v-belts, or serpentine belts.
Of course to keep the cost of this engine certification down automakers will seek to drive the car as fast a possible. In some cases (the case of a new Mercedes engine I recall) the vehicle's average speed was over 100mph over this 100K miles test.
The test is done on a closed course, and the time the car is moving is maximized. 'pit' stops for fueling and vital fluid/filter services are done promptly with this in mind.
The test does not expose the engine to cold starts, idling, and short trips and such that these engines will experience in real life.
But the test does indicate with reasonable servicing (oil/filter) the engines are capable of some big (100K big anyhow) miles.
What you have to worry about before wearing out the engine is little things that are only little on the surface, but which are big nonetheless and if ignored subject the engine to considerable risk.
My favorite example -- because too many owners/drivers engage in it -- is to ignore a cooling system leak.
If the cooling system has a leak it can't hold pressure. It is the considerable pressure (for a cooling system anyhow) that develops which keeps the coolant from flashing to steam.
If the pressure is down the engine can develop localized overheating as the coolant flashes to steam at the hottest places in the engine. This steam acts to block coolant flow over these hot spots. They as a result get hotter. Also, little of the heat of this steam is transferred to the coolant fluid so the coolant temp might not even rise to any scary level.
But the resulting damage can be severe, even fatal to the engine and the owner is then faced with spending a relatively huge sum of money, maybe considerably more than the car is worth even if it were healthy, to repair it.
Not a few owners will forgo this expense and the car is lost.
My advise is do not worry about when (or even if) you'll have to rebuild your car's engine.
Instead focus on keeping the car and the engine in good health through reasonable and prudent servicing.
Take care of the little things. Like a suspected coolant leak.
Keep the car clean, looking nice. A nice looking car is an easier car to spend some money on.
Avoid accidents.
And just as important as all of the above, enjoy the car. Every chance you get.
Sincerely,
Macster.
As I think I've mentioned before generally modern internal combustion engines are expected to be able to deliver 10K hours run time.
Assuming an average speed of 30mph, that 300K miles. (I might add that I have covered over 255K miles in my 02 Boxster and the last time I checked its average speed is very close to 30mph. So I'm closing in on that 300K mile mark. We'll have to see what the future holds.)
Also, I have read -- the source escapes me -- that to certify an engine for sale in the USA the engine in a vehicle must be run/driven for 100K miles with no servicing allowed but the scheduled (based on miles covered) of vital fluids (oil) and filters (oil and intake air filters).
Even for those engines that have rubber camshaft timing belts these can't be replaced. Neither can v-belts, or serpentine belts.
Of course to keep the cost of this engine certification down automakers will seek to drive the car as fast a possible. In some cases (the case of a new Mercedes engine I recall) the vehicle's average speed was over 100mph over this 100K miles test.
The test is done on a closed course, and the time the car is moving is maximized. 'pit' stops for fueling and vital fluid/filter services are done promptly with this in mind.
The test does not expose the engine to cold starts, idling, and short trips and such that these engines will experience in real life.
But the test does indicate with reasonable servicing (oil/filter) the engines are capable of some big (100K big anyhow) miles.
What you have to worry about before wearing out the engine is little things that are only little on the surface, but which are big nonetheless and if ignored subject the engine to considerable risk.
My favorite example -- because too many owners/drivers engage in it -- is to ignore a cooling system leak.
If the cooling system has a leak it can't hold pressure. It is the considerable pressure (for a cooling system anyhow) that develops which keeps the coolant from flashing to steam.
If the pressure is down the engine can develop localized overheating as the coolant flashes to steam at the hottest places in the engine. This steam acts to block coolant flow over these hot spots. They as a result get hotter. Also, little of the heat of this steam is transferred to the coolant fluid so the coolant temp might not even rise to any scary level.
But the resulting damage can be severe, even fatal to the engine and the owner is then faced with spending a relatively huge sum of money, maybe considerably more than the car is worth even if it were healthy, to repair it.
Not a few owners will forgo this expense and the car is lost.
My advise is do not worry about when (or even if) you'll have to rebuild your car's engine.
Instead focus on keeping the car and the engine in good health through reasonable and prudent servicing.
Take care of the little things. Like a suspected coolant leak.
Keep the car clean, looking nice. A nice looking car is an easier car to spend some money on.
Avoid accidents.
And just as important as all of the above, enjoy the car. Every chance you get.
Sincerely,
Macster.
05-30-2012, 06:35 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I like that Macster brought up "run time" for an engine rather than mileage. I'm of the belief that mileage is not nearly as important as people make it out to be, as if 100k miles is some magic number where every car just falls apart. Obviously, mileage is the easiest to track so it's no wonder that it is used as a key metric for judging the condition of a vehicle. Think about it this way: Which car do you think has the "healthiest" engine (all other factors being equal), a car with 50k miles that crawled along in traffic for two hours a day as a commuter/errand car, or an identical car with 100k miles that was used for cross-country road trips?
05-30-2012, 07:10 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Good discussion, but what the elephant in the room is that the question being asked is nonsensical.
How long is a piece of string kind of nonsense.
I just visited billyboy who broke a cam chain at 130K km and was filthy with oil leaks. My engine has 120K km and is clean all over. I plan to run my motor to 400K km.
How long is a piece of string kind of nonsense.
I just visited billyboy who broke a cam chain at 130K km and was filthy with oil leaks. My engine has 120K km and is clean all over. I plan to run my motor to 400K km.
05-30-2012, 09:17 PM
#22
Instructor
Good discussion, but what the elephant in the room is that the question being asked is nonsensical.
How long is a piece of string kind of nonsense.
I just visited billyboy who broke a cam chain at 130K km and was filthy with oil leaks. My engine has 120K km and is clean all over. I plan to run my motor to 400K km.
How long is a piece of string kind of nonsense.
I just visited billyboy who broke a cam chain at 130K km and was filthy with oil leaks. My engine has 120K km and is clean all over. I plan to run my motor to 400K km.
05-30-2012, 11:13 PM
#24
Intermediate
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This is a ridiculous question. Everyone knows that a 996 engine with a factory IMS will last 10,000 miles and then blow up, burst into flames and burn to the ground. If you install an LN engineering aftermarket IMS, that is designed to last 50,000 miles. So by my math, that's 60,000 miles MAXIMUM.
If you install a IMS guardian, you will likely NEVER have a problem, but if you do, Jake Raby himself is the only one who can help.
That is what I have learned from this forum in the last 2 years.
Hopefully it is helpful.
If you install a IMS guardian, you will likely NEVER have a problem, but if you do, Jake Raby himself is the only one who can help.
That is what I have learned from this forum in the last 2 years.
Hopefully it is helpful.
05-31-2012, 01:10 AM
#25
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This is a ridiculous question. Everyone knows that a 996 engine with a factory IMS will last 10,000 miles and then blow up, burst into flames and burn to the ground. If you install an LN engineering aftermarket IMS, that is designed to last 50,000 miles. So by my math, that's 60,000 miles MAXIMUM.
If you install a IMS guardian, you will likely NEVER have a problem, but if you do, Jake Raby himself is the only one who can help.
That is what I have learned from this forum in the last 2 years.
Hopefully it is helpful.
If you install a IMS guardian, you will likely NEVER have a problem, but if you do, Jake Raby himself is the only one who can help.
That is what I have learned from this forum in the last 2 years.
Hopefully it is helpful.
05-31-2012, 12:00 PM
#26
This is a ridiculous question. Everyone knows that a 996 engine with a factory IMS will last 10,000 miles and then blow up, burst into flames and burn to the ground. If you install an LN engineering aftermarket IMS, that is designed to last 50,000 miles. So by my math, that's 60,000 miles MAXIMUM.
If you install a IMS guardian, you will likely NEVER have a problem, but if you do, Jake Raby himself is the only one who can help.
That is what I have learned from this forum in the last 2 years.
Hopefully it is helpful.
If you install a IMS guardian, you will likely NEVER have a problem, but if you do, Jake Raby himself is the only one who can help.
That is what I have learned from this forum in the last 2 years.
Hopefully it is helpful.
05-31-2012, 01:32 PM
#29
Nordschleife Master
This is a ridiculous question. Everyone knows that a 996 engine with a factory IMS will last 10,000 miles and then blow up, burst into flames and burn to the ground. If you install an LN engineering aftermarket IMS, that is designed to last 50,000 miles. So by my math, that's 60,000 miles MAXIMUM.
If you install a IMS guardian, you will likely NEVER have a problem, but if you do, Jake Raby himself is the only one who can help.
That is what I have learned from this forum in the last 2 years.
Hopefully it is helpful.
If you install a IMS guardian, you will likely NEVER have a problem, but if you do, Jake Raby himself is the only one who can help.
That is what I have learned from this forum in the last 2 years.
Hopefully it is helpful.
Excellent! Please, let's take this as a new law and enforce it!
