Targan

Hi folks,

I am a proud owner of a 2003 996. As much as I love my baby, I sometimes feel like I picked the wrong car. Having driven only 2500 miles since I bought it, I have spent more than $5000 on repairing her. May be the guy who buys it from me will be lucky since it looks like I bought it in the phase where the maintenance costs are high and I am fixing of all of them.

I have been struggling with the check engine light turning for the same code P0306 for the last 6 months or so. Cylinder 6 is the issue. After a whole lot of diagnostics and replacing the coil pack, fuel injector, spark plug, wiring harness, and spending close to $3000, the CEL is still on. When my independent mechanic replaced the coil pack, it worked fine for a couple of hours and just by the time I thought I had dodged a bullet, there it was again. It worked almost identically after replacing the wiring harness. I stored the car for 5 months and brought it out last weekend. I drove 3 hours to Chicago and the next morning when I fired up the car, CEL came up again.

Having done all this work and having spent a lot of $$$, I was puzzled when I took it back to my mechanic. It was the same code P0306 this time as well. Cylinder 6 it is !!! He took a couple of days and after having spoken to the Porsche rep, he thinks it is a $4200 repair. Valve lifters need to be replaced. To replace both sides for all 6 cylinders, the quote is $4200 ($2100 for parts and $2100 labor) If it is just one side (the side of cylinder 6) which is causing the problem now, it would be $2900. But then, if the other lifters go bad in the future, I would need to shell out another $2900 at that point. The car has 93,500 miles on it and I am planning to put it on sale sometime this fall (September or October) since I am going to be moving out of the country on business/work

What would you guys do? Replace both sides spending $4200 or just replace one side for 2900 and hope that it lasts through the summer.

Secondly, does the cost of replacing the valve lifters sound reasonable? Any cheaper options out there? Aftermarket parts, etc? Any helpful information is greatly appreciated. Disclaimer: I do not have any tools and the option of doing it myself is ruled out.

Thank you guys for your help!

jimq

If its still running good and at that mileage i would run it until you leave and sell it cheap as a track build platform to somebody.

Targan

Nope, it doesn't run fine. Misfiring cylinder 6. Vibrates heavily on idle.

dennis hiip

It's not recommended by Porsche, but you could change just the one bad lifter. I was told by a Porsche dealer tech that changing all the lifters on the bank is a preventative measure. I know of one case where replacing only the one bad lifter had good results. Something to ponder anyway. I would also look for another indy and also research compatible lifters. I've read on here ( use search) where some model BMW lifters are identical to Porsche for much less cost. Maybe someone else can chime in on this. I think "the book" says this is an 11 hr job( one bank). Here, indys charge $70-90/hr where a dealer gets a whole lot more than that. I think your quote is excessive.

Targan

Thanks Dennis,

I am looking into alternatives right now. I dont mind changing all the lifters from one bank. I would kill myself if they had to do all of the work again in 6 months to change another lifter in the same bank costing me almost the same amount. But really unsure I should touch the lifters in the other bank.

I will look in to compatible lifters. Reading on a similar incident at Pelican where the dealer took the same route on a guy who had the same problem.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-996-997-forum/370826-2002-996-lifter-problem-only-12k-miles.html

Sounds like my Indy is charging me dealer rates. Their labor rates are 97 bucks an hour. But really reputed guys in Madison area.

Dharn55

There are compatible lifter for the exhaust side but the intake lifters on the VarioCamPlus are specialized. When Porsche went from VarioCam to VaricoCamPlus they changed the number (maybe the design) of the exhaust lifters (on the earlier design the intake and exhaust lifters were the same) and totally redesigned the intake lifters. AT that time Porsche stopped distributing the "old" exhaust lifters, offering only the new part number. But Porsche sourced the lifters from the same company that provided BMW lifters, and the "old" lifters are still available from many sources other than Porsche at significantly lower pricing. I discovered this when I was working on my engine and replaced all the lifters. To date no one has been able to tell me if the old and new exhaust lifters are really any different.

For the intake lifters I don't know if there is another source of compatible lifters.

If you want to learn more about the lifters and the differences in the two systems check out htis thread I did back in 2010

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-a-primer.html

ClickClickBoom

Can you hear the valve banging? I'd get a second opinion. Sounds like this guy is throwing parts at the problem.

dcdrechsel

Was a compression test done in the first round of Diagnostics ?

nitrorocket

I own shop, if he didnt fix it he should eat the money already spent, i do . What up with the garages screwing people over becuse they are too lazy to perform a correct diagnosis!! I would just replace the one lifter. Its likely you will not have another problem after that...

silotwo

I had a bad lifter on cylinder 6 on my 04 C2 at around 45k miles. Repaired under CPO they replaced all lifters on that bank, both intake and exhaust, as specified by Porsche. Car now has 72K miles on her and runs just as strong as ever. Just my experience with it, yet luckily I had a CPO to cover the entire tab.

Also have to say that the P-Car dealer precislely diagnosed the problem in under 20 minutes, they did not try the "diagnose through and parts replacement" method.

porsches996

Targan...

Last time i have had a serious problem with one of my Porsche (a few years ago) i realized something....GO TO DEALER...they will easily diagnose your problem then it will probably cost you $100.00 and then you will decide what to do.
At that time my mechanic kept my Porsche at his garage for more then 4 days and never found the problem.... then like Silotwo the Dealer in less then 15 minutes found the problem and a few hours later the car was running just perfect.

When the problem is a bad suspension or brakes that is an easy diagnostic otherwise just go to dealer and that will be money well spend..
just my 02

Good luck

Robert

dcdrechsel

Observations........
I think your first bill was so high is due to the wiring harness .Not sure which one was replaced but they tend to be labor intensive .A bit unusal to require replacement -corrorsion-rodents or chaffing ?
As far as the current dilema -from a repair perspective the engine is like 2- 3 cylinder motors .If the repair is to be carried out with the engine in the car there really is no economy of scale .They do one side and repeat steps on the other side .The point being that doing one bank should be ok .
Parts cost -google partsgeek.com they have the parts and are competitively priced .
As far as labor costs -don't know but I am sure he factors in tying up a lift and mechanic for a day .The lift is the money maker .Smaller shop might be an option .I would use Porsche book labor guidelines as a guage a fair price .

Targan

Dharn55, that's some detailed research you have done on the lifters. Thanks a ton. I did research and find out that Porsche redesigned their intake exhaust lifters in 2002. Also, one of the parts guys told me that I might have luck finding cheaper exhaust lifters but finding intake lifters for less than Porsche listed price might not be possible. So, did you use the older type of exhaust lifters on your car?

Clickclickboom, I do not hear the valve banging but I do have heavy vibrations on idle.

Dcdrechsel, I believe he did the compressions tests this time when I took it in.

Nitrorocket, I had this talk with him the last time before he changed the wiring harness. Because, he had already changed coilpack and spark plug and stuff which was totally not necessary. He says it's the usual protocol. I am really pissed now that even the harness didn't need replacement. I wish all mechanics were like u .

Silotwo, Porsche996, Really, the biggest take away from this is to just get the diagnosis done by the dealer. But I read on PelicanParts that one of the dealers screwed up just like this going the same route as my Indy. Guess it depends on how good the dealer is as well.

dcdrechsel, I am not sure whether he is going to drop the engine or do it with the engine in the car. I think it's a no brainier to go for 1 bank only now. I will look up partsgeek.com. Thanks!

Again, thank u guys for all ur inputs. Any other cost saving tips are greatly appreciated.

dennis hiip

There's a lot of other parts that are needed besides the lifters. Gaskets. seals. O rings and such. I always get the best price along with personalized and knowledgeable service from Sunset Porsche when buying parts. They will fix you up with all the right stuff at the best price. My experience anyway.

dcdrechsel

The compression test is pretty important on you vintage motor .There have been several cases of valve seats working loose .Not being an alarmist but establishing cylinder /valve seat integrity should be a first step .In fact probably should have been done before he started chucking parts .Second point -from a repair cost perspective big difference if engine in car or removed .Third point- parts prices will probably only establish a reasonable price by the repairer .Genrally they want the profit from the parts as well as labor .However it would be interesting if you volunteered Sunset prices .
Good luck ....