996Pilot

2002 C2 Cab with 35,000 miles and while it's used as a daily driver, not far - just about 4 miles in the morning and 4 miles in the evening. Weekends it gets a good leg stretch.

I'm changing the oil today and, as always, I cut the filter apart to look for metal and other debris. Never anything to look at EXCEPT today. Three chunks in the filter and one of them (the largest one) is magnetic. Crap

Is it the beginning of the dreaded .......

nick49

Those look like plastic. I thought it would have to be iron or steel to be magnetic. Those pieces don't look like any bearing component assembly, retainer, seal, etc. Really don't look like tensioner shoe material either. Not having inside a 996 motor I don't know what to think. If I were to guess, I'd say possibly part of an insulator material on a sensor of sorts or possibly chunks of a sealer or bonding agent. Doesn't look serious to me and I'm opening motors and trans' often to put food on the table.

Quadcammer

looks to me like piece of the chain guides, which are plastic. Not sure what would be magnetic since I believe the body of the guide is aluminum.

Nevertheless, chunks of material that big are NEVER good. I'd take it to someone you trust to review.

Barn996

Maybe Jake Raby will see tis post and chime in. He certainly seems to know his stuff.

logray

Are they hard and brittle or soft and pliable.

Flat6 Innovations

Main and variocam wear pad timing chain rail material... Somewhat normal, but never good.

996Pilot

What would be the proper course of action to take? Can/should it be driven, not driven, engine dropped and opened, rebuilt, replaced, ?????? What else gets destroyed if I do nothing?

I have a full aftermarket warranty but how do you bring this up to them? If it's running great and there are no obvious signs of anything wrong other than what I saw in my oil filter, I highly doubt they would be susceptible to opening up the engine.

I guess I'm full of questions.

Thanks for the online diagnosis!

ivangene

drive it, then drive some more

monitor the filter

drive it some more....
can I ask...what oil are you running - I have seen premature pad wear before and oil is surely one factor in that

Macster

Those pieces look like they are composite plastic the largest source of this is the cam chain guide/tensioner facings.

Are they very hard plastic?

Are you sure none of the pieces are metal? Are you sure one (the largest? one) is indeed ferrous? None of them look like any ferrous metal bits.

The color based on the few engine interiors I've seen suggests the material is from one of the guides/tensioners that lay along the chain from the IMS to the exhaust cam or possibly (if your car has this style of VarioCam hardware) from one of the VarioCam actuators that reside between the exhaust and intake cams and which work on that short length of chain to control the intake cam timing.

(The chain guide/tensioner that runs along side the crankshaft to IMS chain drive is a much darker plastic, almost black.)

The pieces look 'big', which suggests they somehow avoided going through the high pressure pump or either one of the scavage pumps.

I'm not that knowledgeable about the 996 engine's internals to know if there is another path, a more direct path any pieces shed by any of the chain guide/tensioner material, can take to the oil filter housing, but I find it hard to imagine such a path.

The oil filter housing is on the high pressure side of the oil pump and whenever the engine is running the oil filter housing is under under pressure, and this oil that is under pressure comes from the high pressure pump. This is gear pump and these gears will pretty much pulverize anything that is in the oil.

So, what does this mean?

Absent any other signs of distress or more material or different material, like IMS bearing seal material, or ferrous metal from a failing IMS or signs of alum. metal flake in the filter oil from a chain making contact with the alum of a chain guide/tensioner, or greenish material that can be from a failing chain tensioner, or pieces of iron/steel that is coming from a failing chain, I think it is hard to justify the expense of an engine teardown.

What I think I would do in your case is finish the oil change. Do not let this distraction cause you to screw this up.

Of course you will clean the filter housing out and install a new filter and a new filter housing o-ring. Be sure to refill the engine with the proper amount of oil.

Start the engine and let the egnine idle. Be at the ready to shut off the engine at the first sign/sound of trouble.

After a goodly amount of idle time, say 15 minutes, shut off the engine and remove the filter housing and pour the oil/filter element into a clean drain pan.

What you see in the oil/filter or what you don't see determines what you do next.

Sincerely,

Macster.

logray

My post was too alarmist so I edited it out...

ivangene

I 1/2 way agree....but he has a really good camera and those may look large...but they are not large....

he has a warranty

the motor runs fine....

drive and monitor - its a single data point....if he sees more next change or none at all, then what?

ivangene

the colors look the same yet you say the one is ferrous?

that is strange - maybe it has a flake of metal in it because it looks like the same stuff....

dude, you have a warranty......there is no way they will start digging around to the tune of thousands of dollars to chase doen a 0.2x0.2" chunk of rubbery junk in your oil filter

logray

+1 to the above, and here are some pics of all these pieces we're talking about...

Variocam pads (only on 1999-2001 cars). Normal wear after 75k miles



On all 996 cars. From left to right. IMS to Crank chain guide, Main/IMS paddle (this cast part has a very thin plastic cover on it), Large IMS to camshaft rails.



Side view of the IMS chain paddle and very thin "plastic" pad on it.

ivangene

that paddle is one scary part..and the button!! what a joke!!!

I do like LNE's billet one of these...but not something you can just change out on the weekend

Macster

The pieces of material are large.

We have seen pics of alum pieces that have come through the oil pump and while the pieces/flakes are 'large' they are as thin as foil.

The reason is there is very little clearance between the gears of the oil pump.

In fact there can be 'zero' clearance as the gear teeth can actually make contact. Well, almost make contact. There's always the presence of a thin film of oil.

As an aside: The gear teeth have a involute shape which supports the gear teeth rolling against one another which tends to preserve this thin film of oil.

Furthermore in other cases where people have posted pics of oil filter housing oil/filter debris we have seen stuff in the filter and it is the size of small grains of sand in size, or even smaller. (I had an oil filter housing full of oil in a drain pan the oil had so much metal in it that it had 'color' to it, looked like metal flake in the oil, but even with my fingers I could feel nothing. The stuff was that fine.)

My guess is the OP will not see anything after the 15 minutes of idling. In which case he can continue to drive the car though of course at first and for some time he can (if he wants) be a bit more attentive to the engine at teh first signs of any thing out of the ordinary shut off the engine. My guess is the engine will be ok and after a while this incident will fade from his memory.

If the engine acts up, starts to exhibit more symptoms of trouble, or if after he checks the oil filter oil for the 2nd time, and if he sees something in the filter that is scary then he has the previous pics and the pics of the what just came out of the engine to take to the dealer and ask for professional advice.

Still, my guess and it is only a guess is neither the dealer nor any 3rd party warranty company is going to pay for any engine teardown or anything else based on just a few pieces of material absent any other signs of engine trouble.

But I could be wrong. If I am the that's great. But if I'm not at least he has it on record that something's not quite right.

Sincerely,

Macster.