blyguy

Hello Rennlist,

I'm a long time BMW owner and BMWCCA member who has been bitten by the Porsche bug. There is a 1999 Carrera 2, 6 speed I am looking at with ~115k miles, with full documentation from the dealer and independent shops. The seller is an air cooled 911 restorer and not a dealer. He is also the 3rd owner. My concern has nothing to do with the seller, but rather what can go wrong after 115k miles on these cars?

My point of reference is a 1988 M3 with 250k miles, and a 1997 M3 sedan with 186k miles so the miles dont scare me. Are there any specific things I should ask about during the PPI, besides coolant/oil mixing, CELs and IMS/RMS issues.

The car in question has had a RMS replacement 5-6 years ago, should it be a concern then? There is no mention of a intermediate shaft repair or upgrade. There has also been a clutch replacement 2 years, 10k miles ago.

The car has probably been tracked, judging by the receipts and the presence of a roll bar and race seats But has clean original paint, no accident damage on inspection and recent suspension service and alignment. the fact the car has a Golden Gate PCA tech sticker on it means that it likely has been tech'd and inspected thoroughly during its life. I am ok with the price if the car checks out as advertised.

Finally, can anyone recommend a west LA shop for PPI that knows 996s. I have TRE motorsport and NARW from searching the forum and will call them tomorrow.

Thanks for reading this whole thing and I'm looking forward to possibly owning a P-car.

-Bryant

j beede

Several of the MY99 996s that I have looked at have had their engines replaced--some under warranty, some not. Check the engine code which is located just below the cylinder #3 exhaust header. If the number includes "AT" that is an indicator that the engine has been replaced. e.g. M96/04AT******. If you have heard about the LN Eng IMS bearing retrofit, or if you plan to do this update... you need to know that replacement engines dated late 2005 and later may not be a candidate for the LN Eng retrofit. You can search rennlist for 13mm and 22mm and IMS to learn more. Good luck.
...j

blyguy

Thank you - I will ask to have that checked at the PPI.

B

DreamCarrera

beede, does Jake and LN cut you a check every month or do they simply directly deposit the funds into your account?

Barn996

Buying a high mileage Porsche has some similarities to buying a high mileage BMW, perform due diligence with both, review maintenance and repair history, have it checked by someone who really knows the brand and go with your gut regarding condition and presentation. GL

relinuca

Not sure what blyguy likes about this car. I would run the other way before buying a high mileage performance car with a track history bcause there are plenty of really nice lower mileage cars to chose from out there.

relinuca

nick49

+1

Suspension components wear with miles and are expensive to replace. I noticed my 17k mile car was like new compared to my 61k 996 when I sold it. I have driven a few high milers and noticed the sloppyness and noise as the miles creep up. Another thing is interior wear and tear seems a lot greater with miles, as does everything.

On the older years, '99-'01 or '02 I'd look for a model < 50k miles with a replaced motor. It would most likely cost $3-$5k more than a high mile beater and be worth much more in my opinion.

Wifes '99 Boxster has <30k miles, is mint in every respect. Never left a spot of oil on the floor, headlights are chrystal clear, rubber still soft, undercarriage totally like new. Never driven in rain or parked all day in the sun, just a fun car for nice weather. This is the type of car I'd love to find if in the market.

jyoteen

a lower mileage car definitely does not guarantee a good example. It all depends. Part luck of the draw, but mostly service history.

I am much more inclined personally to buy a car with high mileage and documented service history versus a lower mileage one with spotty records. Even extremely high mileage cars.

For example, my car at 115k miles, and a lot of them on track has received much more care and going over (frequently) than a lot of street cars. Just today, my car is going into the shop to get every nut and bolt under the chassis examined and torqued, along with yet another comprehensive fluid change (3rd this year)

Dennis C

Many people feel that higher mileage 996s are actually a better buy because they seem to have fewer IMS issues. One theory is that the ones that are driven more frequently keep the IMS bearing lubricated better than the ones that sit in the garage for extended periods of time. I'm not suggesting that you buy a beater, but if you find a higher mileage car that is well-maintained and in good shape, it's probably a good buy. Get a PPI of course. Buying a low mileage car gives you no guarantee a problem-free car, and it may actually have more problems.

dotframe

I've seen others here say that you should buy the newest and best example you can afford. You will save money in parts later. I agree with this.

I went with low mileage (28k on a 2003) a few months ago. I don't regret my decision one bit.

I'll be going in for an IMSR, RMS, and new clutch while they are in there in a few months so that I can sleep at night. Otherwise I just change the oil when needed and drive the **** out of it. Enjoying every minute

blyguy

Yeah, it's one of those cars with the right combination of equpiment. Black on black leather, Nomex GT3 seats, factory roll bar with cross braces, 2002 Carrera wheels, original paint in good condition. It has a lot of records but nowhere does it show IMS inspection, but the clutch has been replaced twice and rear main seal once so someone would have known to look, right?

I think the high mileage has brought me to my senses, as wear on all the plastic pieces in the timing chain tensioners and other plastic components seems imminent. These 996s remind me of the E36 BMWs (the first "computer-designed" BMWs) where everything is plastic and wears out over time. My E30 M3 was still made of steel and rubber and very few items have degraded, in the same vein as 911's up until the Boxster/996.

I think I will talk to the owner and see if he can put me in touch with a previous owner, they seem to all be PCA guys. Or do you guys think this is a lost cause, and I'm in it for her looks only?

Thanks for all the help,
Bryant

Macster

What can go wrong after 115K miles? Everything. Or nothing. Or somewhere in between. Probably the latter.

That the car has made it to 115K miles and provided a thorough test ride/drive and a PPI find nothing seriously wrong says something about thsi car's treatment and its current condition.

But even though a car may be well taken care of stuff happens. An AOS, fuel pump, water pump, CV boots, MAF, sensors, converters, and so on, can go bad at any time and generally with little warning.

You can speak to the person doing the PPI and ask him what is involved. The car is just a used car so a good used car check out is paramount.

I like to advise a longish (15 miles or so) test ride followed by a test drive over the same route and the route should give the driver a chance to demo the car and its performance, not necessarily that it reaches 60mph from a stop in the factory time, but that the engine starts ok, idles good, warms up and remains quiet and pulls good from idle to red line and does this a couple of times in a row. Also, of course that the car steers good, drives smooth, stops good and with out pulling and so on.

You shouldn't have to remind the PPI guy of anything. He *should* know what to look for and that is everything!

If you find someone that believes a 'dry' RMS is sufficient proof the car's in good shape to the point he's ignoring the other possible problem areas, common and known and some not so common and a bit unknown, he's not the guy for the job.

Now the car may check out just fine but that doesn't mean a few K miles down the road the water pump won't develop a problem, or the fuel pump won't quit.

Generally you should set aside 10% of the car's purchase price to have in reserve should something unexpected go bad.

Sincerely,

Macster.

knfeparty

Make sure you talk to ahmet, he's the one with the avatar of the kitty and the pistol. He's owned m3s and 996s and loves to track them.

carcster88

I agree 100%....had 3 BMWs myself and traded the E46 in for the 996. I think the miles are kinda high though. I got my 2000 996 for a great deal with 59K on the ODO. Then I did some routine maintenance on it...new plugs, serp belt, brake fluid, oil change, air and cabin filters.....

Main thing is get it checked out. For reference, here is a pic of my last E46....I loved the BMW, but since I have a few other vehicles...the 996 is my fun toy. No issues with it yet.





Also...just a heads up...like the BMW....no way you can get cheap HP.....but I still love my Guards Red 996....totally different car.