Is this IMS thing out of hand? The IMS Fear Factor
08-13-2011, 12:52 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is this IMS thing out of hand? The IMS Fear Factor
Its becoming the fear factor. I work for one of the highest volume GM dealerships in the Southwest and I can tell you that engines granade all the time.
I'll go out on a long shot here but would guess percentages of engine failures are probably the same across all major manufacturers.
It just blows my mind how the fear has been set on all 3 major Porsche Forums for quite a while now.
Then a product is introduced to relieve your fear.
Now a hot-line.
Hats off to the marketing guy behind all this, its played out very well.
But I still think its goofy.
I cant wait to read the posts that follow this.
I'll go out on a long shot here but would guess percentages of engine failures are probably the same across all major manufacturers.
It just blows my mind how the fear has been set on all 3 major Porsche Forums for quite a while now.
Then a product is introduced to relieve your fear.
Now a hot-line.
Hats off to the marketing guy behind all this, its played out very well.
But I still think its goofy.
I cant wait to read the posts that follow this.
08-13-2011, 01:40 PM
#2
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Prince George's County, MD
Posts: 2,481
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I have to say I had some transmission issues so I had my IMS replaced however I was kind of pissed to hear that my IMS bearing was fine at 110,000 miles.
Its becoming the fear factor. I work for one of the highest volume GM dealerships in the Southwest and I can tell you that engines granade all the time.
I'll go out on a long shot here but would guess percentages of engine failures are probably the same across all major manufacturers.
It just blows my mind how the fear has been set on all 3 major Porsche Forums for quite a while now.
Then a product is introduced to relieve your fear.
Now a hot-line.
Hats off to the marketing guy behind all this, its played out very well.
But I still think its goofy.
I cant wait to read the posts that follow this.
I'll go out on a long shot here but would guess percentages of engine failures are probably the same across all major manufacturers.
It just blows my mind how the fear has been set on all 3 major Porsche Forums for quite a while now.
Then a product is introduced to relieve your fear.
Now a hot-line.
Hats off to the marketing guy behind all this, its played out very well.
But I still think its goofy.
I cant wait to read the posts that follow this.
08-13-2011, 01:42 PM
#3
Former Vendor
So would the 996 be better if the IMS Retrofit had never been developed and we would have simply sold everyone who has had an engine saved through our developments a new engine. In the past six months alone we have saved the owners of Boxster and 996 models an accumulative 75,000.00. This is through IMS procedures when otherwise the engine would have been deemed junk, costing the owner at least 15k per experience.
I get pretty tired of being made out as the bad guy when we are the only ones willing to help people agreeing dealer tells them that they have no choice but to buy a new engine.
Ao perhaps we should have never developed any IMS related components and only offered IMS upgraded complete engines. This would have certainly been more profitable. Excuse me for being an innovator who likes to solve problems. Excuse you for hating the only people who actually give a damn about your engine enough to expend their time and resources trying to save you money if you do have some bad luck.
Vendor haters- boy do they inspire me.
I get pretty tired of being made out as the bad guy when we are the only ones willing to help people agreeing dealer tells them that they have no choice but to buy a new engine.
Ao perhaps we should have never developed any IMS related components and only offered IMS upgraded complete engines. This would have certainly been more profitable. Excuse me for being an innovator who likes to solve problems. Excuse you for hating the only people who actually give a damn about your engine enough to expend their time and resources trying to save you money if you do have some bad luck.
Vendor haters- boy do they inspire me.
08-13-2011, 01:49 PM
#4
In Your Face, Ace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
08-13-2011, 02:51 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
" Excuse you for hating the only people who actually give a damn about your engine enough to expend their time and resources trying to save you money if you do have some bad luck."
I think you're a bit defensive. I never said I hated anyone, as a matter of fact, I praised you for being smart.
I have a question, do Porsche 996 motors fail at a higher percentage than the other major manufacturers?
I think you're a bit defensive. I never said I hated anyone, as a matter of fact, I praised you for being smart.
I have a question, do Porsche 996 motors fail at a higher percentage than the other major manufacturers?
08-13-2011, 03:32 PM
#7
Former Vendor
We both know that your post was abrasive. I actually went on the offense, not the defense, because you insinuated that we simply have made all this up.
Trade places with me and you would understand how much it sucks to try to help people that bash us.. Anyway, it's supply and demand, we didn't create the problem but we have devised several fixes for it. Without what we have done EVERY partially failed IMS bearing would lead to a new engine being required. Some people fail to recognize this.. More people fail to realize that the MFR still maintains that it's an impossible task to remove the factory dual row IMS bearing.
Anyway, I don't mean to be bitter, however I do admit that dealing with the challenges that we face with engines are much more simple than dealing with a select few of the owners.
As far as these engines failing as much as other manufacturers, well I can't answer that because I don't work with any modern engines other than Porsche. I put 200% of my time into the efforts to remedy problems and don't have any time to spend on other engines that are out of my focus.
Trade places with me and you would understand how much it sucks to try to help people that bash us.. Anyway, it's supply and demand, we didn't create the problem but we have devised several fixes for it. Without what we have done EVERY partially failed IMS bearing would lead to a new engine being required. Some people fail to recognize this.. More people fail to realize that the MFR still maintains that it's an impossible task to remove the factory dual row IMS bearing.
Anyway, I don't mean to be bitter, however I do admit that dealing with the challenges that we face with engines are much more simple than dealing with a select few of the owners.
As far as these engines failing as much as other manufacturers, well I can't answer that because I don't work with any modern engines other than Porsche. I put 200% of my time into the efforts to remedy problems and don't have any time to spend on other engines that are out of my focus.
Trending Topics
08-13-2011, 03:38 PM
#8
Instructor
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm going to have one done due to 1) my clutch needs replacing and since I'm in there what's an extra couple hundred to get it put in vs. not doing it and having to spend between $15-20k if it does happen. It might be all hype but its just insurance. Same reason we buy any type of insurance.. If we never use it its money under the bridge if we need it and don't have it we're SOL. If it only cost a few grand to have the engine replaced as it would in say a honda civic or miata then I probably won't care about doing the upgrade but since its gonna cost almost the value of my car then I'll have it done as I don't want to be the one who gets his clutch fixed anyway and not do the upgrade to later say after my engine goes that I should've done it...
08-13-2011, 04:00 PM
#11
Parts Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
IMO the percentage is not the issue...the issue is there was no cure for something that could cost you $15-20k to fix, there was no warning and there was no help from Porsche...some of those things have changed...there is a cure, there is a detection system and there is no help from Porsche
as for your 110k mile car with the "good bearing" - if it had been "bad" you would not have been able to fix it for $1k plus labor...DUH! - "most" replacements are replacing "good" bearings but there is no way of knowing if yours is good until its bad, and no way of knowing its bad till its too late (until the defender came along) - so YES - you are replacing "good parts" in the name of "knowing" its now good and has a better bearing in there...
there are a couple cases I have seen where the bearing was very close to grenading and those cars were so very lucky....and I have seen some that went 5 seconds longer and those cars got all new motors.
Fear Factor? IDK I think its the point that more 996 owners are buying $20k cars with all they have available and a $20k repair bill would end the relationship, so fix before you "have to" Most are not Ferrari mentality where a new clutch can set you back $15k but you have the means to pay the bill
and with that I think we should close this thread and get a beer
as for your 110k mile car with the "good bearing" - if it had been "bad" you would not have been able to fix it for $1k plus labor...DUH! - "most" replacements are replacing "good" bearings but there is no way of knowing if yours is good until its bad, and no way of knowing its bad till its too late (until the defender came along) - so YES - you are replacing "good parts" in the name of "knowing" its now good and has a better bearing in there...
there are a couple cases I have seen where the bearing was very close to grenading and those cars were so very lucky....and I have seen some that went 5 seconds longer and those cars got all new motors.
Fear Factor? IDK I think its the point that more 996 owners are buying $20k cars with all they have available and a $20k repair bill would end the relationship, so fix before you "have to" Most are not Ferrari mentality where a new clutch can set you back $15k but you have the means to pay the bill
and with that I think we should close this thread and get a beer
08-13-2011, 04:41 PM
#13
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Prince George's County, MD
Posts: 2,481
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
According the LN's site there is a way to know if the bearing is failing. "DUH?" are you serious, anyway See below................................................................... ..................................
What can be done to check for a failing bearing?
First of all, there's no need to loose sleep over IMS failures!
There are a few simple things that can be done next time you're having your Porsche serviced to give you some peace of mind before you take the plunge and have an IMS retrofit kit installed on your car.
First, add a magnetic drain plug. This makes for easy inspection for IMS debris.
When doing an oil change, check the filter for any debris whatsoever. Same with the magnetic drain plug. Any sparkly metallic (magnetic) debris means you need to stop driving your car and plan to install an IMS Retrofit. Even if there is only one piece, it's a good bet your bearing is failing.
Here is what IMS bearing debris looks like in the filter. Granted, this is from a full failure, but you can identify the nature of the debris from this photo:
If there is any very small pieces of plastic (bearing seal), that's also a good sign that the bearing is going bad.
Any oil leaks at the rear of the engine should be checked out immediately - it is common to think you have a RMS leak, but in fact, a failing bearing will allow the IMS flange seal to leak.
Lastly, any technician who knows what a failing water pump or idler belt bearing sounds like should be able to use a stethoscope to listen to the IMS for similar problems from the general vicinity of the IMS bearing.
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What can be done to check for a failing bearing?
First of all, there's no need to loose sleep over IMS failures!
There are a few simple things that can be done next time you're having your Porsche serviced to give you some peace of mind before you take the plunge and have an IMS retrofit kit installed on your car.
First, add a magnetic drain plug. This makes for easy inspection for IMS debris.
When doing an oil change, check the filter for any debris whatsoever. Same with the magnetic drain plug. Any sparkly metallic (magnetic) debris means you need to stop driving your car and plan to install an IMS Retrofit. Even if there is only one piece, it's a good bet your bearing is failing.
Here is what IMS bearing debris looks like in the filter. Granted, this is from a full failure, but you can identify the nature of the debris from this photo:
If there is any very small pieces of plastic (bearing seal), that's also a good sign that the bearing is going bad.
Any oil leaks at the rear of the engine should be checked out immediately - it is common to think you have a RMS leak, but in fact, a failing bearing will allow the IMS flange seal to leak.
Lastly, any technician who knows what a failing water pump or idler belt bearing sounds like should be able to use a stethoscope to listen to the IMS for similar problems from the general vicinity of the IMS bearing.
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IMO the percentage is not the issue...the issue is there was no cure for something that could cost you $15-20k to fix, there was no warning and there was no help from Porsche...some of those things have changed...there is a cure, there is a detection system and there is no help from Porsche
as for your 110k mile car with the "good bearing" - if it had been "bad" you would not have been able to fix it for $1k plus labor...DUH! - "most" replacements are replacing "good" bearings but there is no way of knowing if yours is good until its bad, and no way of knowing its bad till its too late (until the defender came along) - so YES - you are replacing "good parts" in the name of "knowing" its now good and has a better bearing in there...
there are a couple cases I have seen where the bearing was very close to grenading and those cars were so very lucky....and I have seen some that went 5 seconds longer and those cars got all new motors.
Fear Factor? IDK I think its the point that more 996 owners are buying $20k cars with all they have available and a $20k repair bill would end the relationship, so fix before you "have to" Most are not Ferrari mentality where a new clutch can set you back $15k but you have the means to pay the bill
and with that I think we should close this thread and get a beer
as for your 110k mile car with the "good bearing" - if it had been "bad" you would not have been able to fix it for $1k plus labor...DUH! - "most" replacements are replacing "good" bearings but there is no way of knowing if yours is good until its bad, and no way of knowing its bad till its too late (until the defender came along) - so YES - you are replacing "good parts" in the name of "knowing" its now good and has a better bearing in there...
there are a couple cases I have seen where the bearing was very close to grenading and those cars were so very lucky....and I have seen some that went 5 seconds longer and those cars got all new motors.
Fear Factor? IDK I think its the point that more 996 owners are buying $20k cars with all they have available and a $20k repair bill would end the relationship, so fix before you "have to" Most are not Ferrari mentality where a new clutch can set you back $15k but you have the means to pay the bill
and with that I think we should close this thread and get a beer
08-13-2011, 05:05 PM
#15
Fear Factor? IDK I think its the point that more 996 owners are buying $20k cars with all they have available and a $20k repair bill would end the relationship, so fix before you "have to" Most are not Ferrari mentality where a new clutch can set you back $15k but you have the means to pay the bill
Agree - perhaps the fear factor is what has put these cars in the $20k range to purchase - a lot of truth in the old saying that the price to purchase is not the same as the cost to own. When we were shopping for a 2nd home as the market was crumbling we found a few really nice and large homes and prices we could not believe. We had quite a few arguments about "but we can afford to buy it" vs. my "but I can't afford to own it". So we bought a fixer upper and now I tease about using the money in the bank to buy a new GTS instead of fixing up the 2nd house. God how I wish...... GTS would solve the IMS worry right?
Agree - perhaps the fear factor is what has put these cars in the $20k range to purchase - a lot of truth in the old saying that the price to purchase is not the same as the cost to own. When we were shopping for a 2nd home as the market was crumbling we found a few really nice and large homes and prices we could not believe. We had quite a few arguments about "but we can afford to buy it" vs. my "but I can't afford to own it". So we bought a fixer upper and now I tease about using the money in the bank to buy a new GTS instead of fixing up the 2nd house. God how I wish...... GTS would solve the IMS worry right?